sutyak's turbo focus [Archive] - Steel City Muscle Cars

sutyak

02-15-2015, 09:08 PM

For a quick history, this is the car that brought me to SCS:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Mach1Front1.jpg

After a couple years having a blast with it, racking up well over 100 1/4 mile passes (best of 12.65) I sold the Mach 1 and picked up a new 2006 Focus 5 door. You know, doing the responsible thing... :laughing:
I do miss the Mach 1 and might have to buy another one someday.

It didn't take long to start playing with the Focus, but I didn't mess around. I skipped all the cold air intake junk and went straight to a turbo. Don't mind the external links. They are some extensive reads.
Nearly EVERY piece of this car was built my me, from the motor to fabricating the turbo manifold, intercooler piping, and full exhaust.

Build #1 (2007) (http://forums.focaljet.com/forced-induction-nitrous/556669-sporadics-turbo-duratec-build-thread.html): Stock motor with custom Thunderbird IHI turbo
Build #1b: Upgraded IHI turbo to a hybrid
Build #2 (2012) (http://forums.focaljet.com/forced-induction-nitrous/662787-sporadics-turbo-duratec-build-2-a.html): Upgraded turbo to GT2871r. Switched to external wastegate.
Current build (http://forums.focaljet.com/forced-induction-nitrous/676498-sporadics-turbo-duratec-build-3-a.html) (external site with many more details)
My PhotoBucket site with all the photos (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/sporadicmach/library/Focus?sort=3&page=1).

Build #3, Current build:
Same GT2871r
SuperTech 10.4:1 pistons
SuperTech rings
Forged H-beam rods
ARP head and main studs
Clevite main and rod bearings
Crower valve springs and retainers
Crane stage 1 cams
Exedy Hyper Single clutch
Torsen LSD
15x8 Weld wheels with 24.5x8 MT slicks
More Prothane suspension bushings
Coilovers? Have them. Not sure if I'll install.
Steeda rear sway bar. Also not sure if I want the extra weight.
Possibly partial new exhaust
Aluminum steering rack bushings
Delrin motor mount bushings?
Extended wheel studs for front wheels
Direct port methanol injection with progressive controller
Dual stage boost controller
Kenne Bell boost-a-pump
Lakewood traction bars
Braided brake lines

Non-performance:
SVT Recaro leather seats front and back
SVT side mirrors
MAP sensor for data logging

Goal: 375whp+ and 11.9 sec 1/4 mile

The motor I'm building is the original out of my car. It suffered an overboost with the IHI turbo and damaged/broke a ring landing and began smoking like crazy. This happened a few years ago, but I'm just now getting around to rebuilding the motor. This is my first ground-up rebuild. With the exception of some very minor scratches (can't even feel it with a fingernail) the motor was fine and fully rebuild-able.
Since this motor had no significant damage and very low mileage I'm lucky enough to not need anything professionally machined. That being said I'm still measuring everything and comparing against the Haynes manual.

The cylinders were a bit shiny and I wanted to get that small scratch out of cylinder #2 so I used a 3-blade 220 grit hone to give it a new cross-hatch. I did as little honing as possible and stayed with the 87.5mm pistons.
Following SuperTech's formulas I gapped the top ring to .018" and the second ring I left at .023" as it came out of the box.

The valve springs and retainers are upgraded with Crowers. I went with steel retainers vs. titanium after speaking with a representative at Crower regarding street vs. track use. The steel are also significantly cheaper.

I'll be using a TurboSmart dual-stage boost controller, with a toggle switch for the second stage. First stage will probably be around 13-15psi, and second 20-24psi.

The motor is built, in the car, and has the first 80 or so break-in miles. I'm currently finishing up an extensive wiring project to install the heated/power seats, MAP sensor, USB ports, meth controller, BAP, various relays, and boost controller. Soon it will be back on the street. After about 250 break-in miles I'll start ripping on it and getting the tune worked out. :pepper:

25726

25727

25728

Torsen
25729

New clutch
25730

Mocking up the meth nozzles
25731

Checking cam lobe clearances
25735

Motor shot
25733

As it sits now with the winter wheels
25734

And the turbo
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_9701.jpg

sutyak

02-15-2015, 09:09 PM

How it looks at the moment

Methanol controller, because race cars don't need to hold CDs. :rofl:
25736

BAP
25737

Basically how it looks now. Wiring is nearly complete.
25738

ERR0RMACR0

02-15-2015, 09:22 PM

Awesome build, man--looks like you put a lot of work into get everything put together. Looking forward to hearing some numbers on this :)

sutyak

02-15-2015, 09:29 PM

Awesome build, man--looks like you put a lot of work into get everything put together. Looking forward to hearing some numbers on this :)

Thanks. It's been a long project over the past 8 years with many different configurations. I'm trying to squeeze as much enjoyment as I can out of this little car. Everything I can do with this to keep myself entertained keeps me from dropping a ton of cash on a new project car, which would probably be a '10-'14 GT500 or '15GT.

zxgto06

02-15-2015, 09:37 PM

Nice car! Awesome seeing a build out of the mainstream

SlowSix

02-15-2015, 09:47 PM

love it. I love builds that aren't your typical stuff. Any idea what the car weighs?

sutyak

02-15-2015, 09:59 PM

love it. I love builds that aren't your typical stuff. Any idea what the car weighs?

Stock it was 2650lbs according to Ford. I haven't weighed it since then, but no doubt I've added weight from the intercooler pipes and 3" turbo back exhaust. The leather power seats certainly won't help. I'd figure 2750-2800lbs now. Race weight without seats, spare, and my 160lbs self would still be at least 2800lbs. For the track I'm heavily considering a straight dump after the crossmember. That will save weight and help spool.
On my to-do list is to buy a TIG welder this year and start working with aluminum. The first project will be aluminum intercooler piping instead of stainless steel, and possibly a full aluminum exhaust.

SlowSix

02-15-2015, 10:20 PM

Stock it was 2650lbs according to Ford. I haven't weighed it since then, but no doubt I've added weight from the intercooler pipes and 3" turbo back exhaust. The leather power seats certainly won't help. I'd figure 2750-2800lbs now. Race weight without seats, spare, and my 160lbs self would still be at least 2800lbs. For the track I'm heavily considering a straight dump after the crossmember. That will save weight and help spool.
On my to-do list is to buy a TIG welder this year and start working with aluminum. The first project will be aluminum intercooler piping instead of stainless steel, and possibly a full aluminum exhaust.

pretty light. Aluminum intercooler piping would definitely help. Never heard of anyone doing an aluminum exhaust though.

sutyak

02-15-2015, 10:29 PM

pretty light. Aluminum intercooler piping would definitely help. Never heard of anyone doing an aluminum exhaust though.

I agree it's rare, but it's certainly done. I doubt I'll go to that expense when I can just dump it at the track. Another Focus owner with a 600hp build did a 4" turbo back aluminum exhaust, which is where I got the idea.

SlowSix

02-15-2015, 10:42 PM

interesting. There is a guy on moddedmustangs with a turbo focus. Not sure how fast it is though. are you running pump gas or e85 ?

sutyak

02-15-2015, 10:46 PM

interesting. There is a guy on moddedmustangs with a turbo focus. Not sure how fast it is though. are you running pump gas or e85 ?
Pump (91 or 93) plus 50/50 water/methanol injection (4x 1.5gph nozzles). I'll be tuning without the WMI initially so I can really see how much timing I can add with the WMI. With 10.4:1 compression and up to 24psi, I'm assuming the WMI will be necessary. I built the motor expecting to run WMI.

gmkillr

02-16-2015, 06:43 AM

Cool project man! Good luck with everything!

yeahloh95

02-16-2015, 06:53 AM

very cool project i would love to have a turbo on my focus

sutyak

02-16-2015, 07:21 AM

Thanks guys. I'm hoping for a 11.9 run this year after I get used to launching a FWD and tweak the suspension and traction bars. A track rental would be ideal where I could make adjustments at the track and get more than two runs in.
If anyone hears of a track rental at PRP, Mason Dixon, or Quaker City (I guess Quaker City is still around?) let me know!

Tom

02-16-2015, 09:18 AM

Get that focus some medicine, it's going to be sick!

I can't wait to see it run.

phillysrt4

02-16-2015, 01:58 PM

unequivocally some of the best sport compact turbo porn i've seen in a while! I might be taking up an offer to get a focus wagon and I would be hard pressed not to follow in your footsteps lol! :)

bgblockelcamino

02-16-2015, 02:12 PM

awesome build. Been building aluminum exhaust for a while. I have a 4 inch downpipe back out fo aluminum and weighs 9 lbs. well worth the effort for weight reduction. have built a few others with good results too and several thousand miles on them

sutyak

02-16-2015, 03:13 PM

unequivocally some of the best sport compact turbo porn i've seen in a while! I might be taking up an offer to get a focus wagon and I would be hard pressed not to follow in your footsteps lol! :)

Thanks! It's been a fun build. I can definitely overwhelm you with turbo Focus information if you do pick one up to play with. While cheaper than a lot of cars to modify, it's still been a money pit.

phillysrt4

02-16-2015, 04:04 PM

right on... im going to swing a PM your way with a question

Cam99

02-16-2015, 05:15 PM

Sweet build!

phillysrt4

02-16-2015, 05:29 PM

cam - a guy at my work has a focus wagon for sale for 1300. The turning my 13 GT/CS into a TT monster would have to be put on hold, but damn this would be fun!

sutyak

02-24-2015, 01:24 PM

Slicks are mounted. KB Boost-a-pump is wired up pre-FPDM using a relay, 10 gauge feed wire directly from the battery, and relay coil is powered by splicing into the fuel cutoff switch. Same as most Mustang guys do it. Post-FPDM it emitted a terrible whine/buzz. It buzzes some now after startup, but less so. No buzzing at all before starting.
Also wired up the AEM meth injection controller and tested that out. I decided to also purchase a flow control solenoid to prevent siphoning.
The heated/power seats and boost controller are also wired up, but seats are not in yet.
WMI nozzles are all hooked up and ready to go. Last things to do are get the back seat mounted, get all the interior trim back on, and it'll be ready to go.

I'll take more photos once I get the interior cleaned up and get it outside for decent lighting. Trouble lights do not make for great photos.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Racing/IMG_20150224_123758.jpg

For reference, the wire from the fuel pump shutoff switch is the green/orange wire. It's the largest gauge wire in the bundle.
The left is from the shutoff switch, and now goes to the relay to power on the BAP. The wire on the right goes to the FPDM (fuel pump driver module), fed by the BAP. Better photos later. HERE is the guide I went by for this type of install. (http://www.chicagolandmustang.com/forums/showthread.php?56446-Pre-FPDM-BAP-Install-Mustang-GT-with-Wiring-Upgrade)
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150223_193156.jpg

A fantastic diagram of how to wire pre-FPDM from the link above. (note the wire colors are for a Mustang)
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/BAPinstall.jpg

Buzzing sound when wired post-FPDM:

http://youtu.be/huqxZycVdFE

Much better wired pre-FPDM:

http://youtu.be/NxcgN_hOqpY

phillysrt4

02-24-2015, 05:07 PM

The boost a pump will let you break 400 to the wheels, no?

sutyak

02-24-2015, 05:12 PM

Hopefully that is all it will take. I'll turn up the boost 1psi at a time and watch the logs and play it by ear.

turbo83coupe

02-24-2015, 07:06 PM

Sweet car!! I always enjoyed seeing this at PRP a few years back! Glad it's still around. Should be a monster with the new setup!!

sutyak

02-24-2015, 08:44 PM

Meth nozzles
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3336.jpg

Zoomed out of BAP
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3331.jpg

Relay
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3325.jpg

Mounting the rear seat. My original seat only had two mounting points. I need to add the center two.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3335.jpg

JeffreyCole

02-25-2015, 09:56 AM

This is a pretty sweet build man. I think one of my next mods will be water/meth injection. Not sure how I am going to accomplish it just yet, but I like your direct port idea.

05mineralgt

02-25-2015, 10:45 AM

Cool build, I remember seeing a guy with a generation after yours at the track going pretty fast (11.xx or something) it was a silver coupe.

sutyak

02-25-2015, 12:05 PM

This is a pretty sweet build man. I think one of my next mods will be water/meth injection. Not sure how I am going to accomplish it just yet, but I like your direct port idea.
Thanks. I plan on keeping the tune fairly safe. I do plan on adding timing with the WMI, but not so much that the computer couldn't pull the same amount if the WMI system failed. So if the computer can pull a max 10 degrees of timing for example, then I wouldn't add more than 5 or 6 degrees over what I could do with pump gas.
At least I say that now. If I'm on the dyno and make 399whp or running 12.01 at the track then you bet I'll risk it.. :rotflol:

Cool build, I remember seeing a guy with a generation after yours at the track going pretty fast (11.xx or something) it was a silver coupe.

Thanks. I know a guy in Pittsburgh with a turbocharged '09 coupe that ran mid 13's, but he didn't run slicks. He's about got his new build completed too and should be gunning for 11's along with me.

SlowSix

02-25-2015, 06:54 PM

Cool build, I remember seeing a guy with a generation after yours at the track going pretty fast (11.xx or something) it was a silver coupe.

it was a sedan I believe actually. The car was CRUSHED on the ground

sutyak

02-25-2015, 07:59 PM

it was a sedan I believe actually. The car was CRUSHED on the ground

This one? I asked him to join the site. His engine bay is immaculate. Definitely a car show worthy ride.
25883

sutyak

02-25-2015, 08:11 PM

Rear seat bracket welded in. The clip-in style nuts are from bolt-in subframe connectors off my 2003 Mach 1. Sometimes it pays to never throw anything away. The rear seat mounts perfectly now. Meth solenoid should be here Friday.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150225_184812.jpg

SlowSix

02-25-2015, 08:30 PM

This one? I asked him to join the site. His engine bay is immaculate. Definitely a car show worthy ride.
25883

Looks about right. Guess it was a coupe. I remember it being lower though, lol

sutyak

03-01-2015, 11:01 AM

Time to ditch the china BOV that is causing some minor compressor surge and move to something made in the USA that I know will work well and is adjustable.
Moving to a 50mm JGS BOV. More photos when I get it installed. Previous BOV was a generic HKS style. It didn't leak boost, but it also didn't open enough to stop all compressor surge.

New:

25915 (http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/wgpg.html)

Old generic HKS:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_6385.jpg

sutyak

03-03-2015, 09:26 PM

Methanol solenoid installed. I also picked up another 20A boost-a-pump and swapped that in. No more loud whine/crackle. It's audible when turned up all the way, but hardly at all below max.
Time to put the interior back together and drive it!

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3386.jpg

JeffreyCole

03-03-2015, 09:31 PM

Did you build this meth kit yourself or buy a pre made one?

sutyak

03-03-2015, 09:39 PM

Did you build this meth kit yourself or buy a pre made one?

I originally bought it from another Focus owner as a kit. He made the custom aluminum tank that contours to the Focus rear seat and pieced the rest together. Now the only parts from that I'm using are the pump and tank.
I added the direct port setup, solenoid, and controller. The only thing it doesn't have is a tank level sensor, which I just don't find necessary. Most of my parts are from Alcohol Injection Systems, and some parts are from Devils Own.

phillysrt4

03-04-2015, 04:59 PM

JeffreyCole

03-04-2015, 06:51 PM

I've seen these eBay knock off valves come apart and dump the valve into the intercooler piping, and actually saw one that the Diaphragm made it into the #1 cylinder. Not worth the risk to me, so I just went with a tried and true TiAL q

sutyak

03-05-2015, 08:10 PM

SVT Recaro back seats are in. I'm honestly shocked at how much I like these back seats. Very comfortable. Well worth a little bit of time to make that center bracket.

Now you see it
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150305_182346.jpg

Now you don't
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/STA_3393.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3391.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3390.jpg

sutyak

03-07-2015, 05:01 PM

Front seats are in. Everything is wired up, and I finally got to take the car out for some data logging today in boost.
Working on the 11.6psi tune first. Slightly higher compression, not tuning with methanol yet, and 1psi more and I need to pull some timing up top. I meant to preemptively pull some timing before doing any WOT runs. Oops. Thankfully the knock sensor was doing it's job.
Even with 11.6psi and a 3" MAF it is nearly out of MAF. I figure 12.5psi would definitely max it out. Time to put the MAFia in.
The KB boost-a-pump is working fine. Fuel pump duty cycle peaked at .36, or 72% with the BAP turned to half. It was 80% before. The next time I go out for some WOT pulls I'll turn it to max to see the difference. I haven't made any changes in fueling in the tune. Still a lot to play with there.

I'm still getting used to the Recaros. I was expecting to be immediately in love with them, but in reality they don't fit quite right yet. I think I adjusted the seat more today than the tune.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3427.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3428.jpg

Mustang threads welded to a Focus shifter. My first mod when I bought the car in 2006
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3424.jpg

Console with no arm rest from an SVT with heat seat switches. The traction control button isn't hooked up. Boost control switch on the bottom/left.
I also swapped out the original faux leather shifter and e-brake boots for the genuine leather SVT boots. Shift knob is a 5-speed Terminator style with Mustang threads. I kept this from my Mach 1.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3433.jpg

USB charging cable and 9-pin DIN cable tucked on the passenger side. There is also an extra USB charging port on the driver side.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3436.jpg

Here is the 4-port USB module I added, hidden inside the dash. It mainly powers the MAP sensor and provides two extra charging cables that are tucked on either side of the center console. Of course this is without the cover and it's all cleaned up now.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150215_193338.jpg

PaxtonShelby

03-07-2015, 06:12 PM

Looking good there!

I I think you need to put a sticker on your gas pedal that says "Traction Control."

sutyak

03-07-2015, 06:18 PM

Looking good there!

I think you need to put a sticker on your gas pedal that says "Traction Control."

Ha! The limited slip is even better than I expected. Typically with all-seasons and the open diff it spins extremely easily. With both tires grabbing it's night and day.

sutyak

03-09-2015, 08:54 PM

I got a little more tuning done tonight. I installed the MAFia on setting 3. That brought the max counts from 869 down to about 700, so I have a lot more headroom now. I have a feeling I might need to turn it to 4 before 23psi.
The headroom with the MAFia is nice, but dang the MAF table I worked so hard on is crap now. Low end is richer and top end is leaner; exactly opposite of what I need. I also had to up the idle so it doesn't stall out due to the MAF counts getting too low. I guess I could counteract that a few different ways, but upping the idle a bit is the easiest for now.
I turned the KB BAP up to 3/4 or so and now the fuel pump duty cycle is only .30, or 60% at the same place it was 72% before. That being said it needed more fuel, so that number will go up next time I get out to log.
I have yet to do a full 7500+ RPM pull. Just taking things slow right now and sticking to 6000 RPM as a max.

The data logging setup. 8.1" tablet. I can tune on it, but I typically just use it for logging. When I get near my house it connects to the wifi and automatically syncs the log files to my main laptop using OneDrive. The laptop is where I do most of the tuning.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/IMG_20150309_190546.jpg

sutyak

03-12-2015, 05:12 PM

Running 13-14psi at the moment and put a couple hundred miles on the car today. Everything seems good. Still things to work out in the tune. Mainly the car is not able to idle after it is fully warmed up. Setting the MAFia on 3 really messed with the resolution, and anything below 900RPM is now off the MAF table. I ran it up to 6500 RPM a few times today with no problems.

10 gallons of methanol. This should help. With 10.4:1 compression and a goal of over 20psi, I built this motor in anticipation of spraying a healthy amount of meth. I'm not going to be shy with it!
I'll tune as high as possible without meth, then retune with meth, but not add so much timing that the knock sensor couldn't pull it safely if the meth system failed.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150312_154613.jpg

JeffreyCole

03-12-2015, 05:57 PM

What's the max timing that ecu can pull?

sutyak

03-12-2015, 06:10 PM

What's the max timing that ecu can pull?
I'm not sure of the absolute max, but I'm only comfortable with a 5 degree padding. I know it comfortably pulls 5 degrees with no audible pinging. Maybe more with some race gas.

Tom

03-12-2015, 06:40 PM

This is exciting, I love the underdog builds! You're going to have to go take out some vettes.

JeffreyCole

03-12-2015, 06:55 PM

I'm not sure of the absolute max, but I'm only comfortable with a 5 degree padding. I know it comfortably pulls 5 degrees with no audible pinging. Maybe more with some race gas.
Hell, even my archaic ecu can pull 15 degrees of timing in "wtf dude" moments.

sutyak

03-12-2015, 10:38 PM

Hell, even my archaic ecu can pull 15 degrees of timing in "wtf dude" moments.

I haven't run it that far out of tune. My original tune did ping like crazy sometimes, which lead to the demise of that engine. Unfortunately I wasn't logging (or directed to log) knock at that time, so I have no idea how bad it was. Now that I handle the tune myself pulling 5 degrees seems high to me. If it can pull 15 that's great, but I don't want to test it! :icon_mrgreen:

I am considering taking advantage of the error switch that is built into the AEM meth controller. It has a wire that goes to a system cutoff switch that gets grounded when an error occurs. My thoughts are I'll use a dual relay configuration, where by default the fuel pump would be enabled through a relay. A secondary relay would actually enable the signal between the AEM unit and the first relay when the high boost switch is turned on.
This would mean the car would run in low boost mode even if there is a fault with the methanol system. If in high boost mode (at the track) it would cut the fuel pump and the car would not run until the high boost switch is turned off.
I still have to draw this out, but I think it will work.

sutyak

03-13-2015, 05:27 PM

I was over-thinking the methanol safety fuel cutoff in my last post. It would only take one relay with the relay coil powered by the high boost switch. The AEM switch would ground the relay coil wire on error, completing the circuit and killing the power to the the boost controller. This way the car still runs, just at a lower power level.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/MethanolFailSafe2.jpg

phillysrt4

03-13-2015, 08:05 PM

Reminds me of the days when I had my srt4.

this thread is win.

JeffreyCole

03-13-2015, 08:19 PM

You could also include a piezoelectric buzzer into the led circuit as a secondary audible warning, in case you were at a wot pull and may not see the led.

sutyak

03-13-2015, 08:39 PM

You could also include a piezoelectric buzzer into the led circuit as a secondary audible warning, in case you were at a wot pull and may not see the led.
Yeah I considered a piezo buzzer, but I think the main thing that would alert me is the sudden drop in power, haha! There is also already a status led in the dash for the meth system, so I probably won't even use the one in the diagram. I'm not ruling out anything yet.

sutyak

03-14-2015, 04:57 PM

I updated my previous post. I'm thinking I'll keep the low boost level (13-14psi) conservative, and be more aggressive with the tune in the upper end above 14 psi.
With this configuration the car will still run when there is a methanol system error, just in low boost mode.

sutyak

03-15-2015, 10:38 AM

Something else I forgot to mention is how fantastic my intake temperatures are now. I wrapped most of the Cossie style intake manifold in reflective heat tape to prevent it from being heat soaked by the radiator and engine block. What a HUGE difference!
When I first bought the Cossie style intake I was terribly disappointed at how bad it heat soaked. Now, as Wobb can attest to, even after driving for an hour and letting the car sit for 15 minutes with the hood down the manifold is relatively cool to the touch.
In boost, my intake temps only rise about 3 or 4 degrees, and drop back down within a couple seconds. My IAT sensor is before the meth nozzles now, so the actual temperature when I'm spraying is much lower.
My air filter is also inside the engine bay!

From my extensive data logging, here are the things that mattered the most keeping the intake temperatures down:
1) Wrap the aluminum intake manifold in reflective heat tape
2) Box the intercooler (this is nearly a tie for #1. DO THIS NOW)
3) Wrap the ambient pipe in reflective heat tape
4) Placement of air filter, or at least route a cool air duct to it

sutyak

03-15-2015, 08:57 PM

Productive day today. I fixed the wiring of the MAP sensor. I somehow found an incorrect diagram of the XCal2 wiring and had the MAP sensor on the incorrect pin.
I also wired up the methanol fail-safe and it works perfectly. Just a simple relay in-line with the boost controller and it kicks the boost controller back to the low boost setting when there is a methanol system malfunction. I tested by pulling the fuse from the methanol controller, which puts it into an error mode. The high boost no longer worked, and I could hear the relay kick instead when I flipped the switch.
I also installed a methanol filter between the tank and pump.
I turned the boost up to 16psi while logging today, but need to add more fuel. It's not knocking, but the AFRs are too high.

This is the correct XCal 2 diagram:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/Tuning/SCTXcal2Din9.gif

sutyak

03-16-2015, 08:29 PM

Always fun blowing off an intercooler pipe. The first time it happened it was a serious oh-sh*t moment. Now it's old news. I only up the boost when I'm close to home, and the car is tuned blow-through so it still runs perfectly fine if a pipe does come off.
I welded some quick and dirty beads to the end of the pipe and it's back on the road.
Unfortunately the car is still leaking some oil from around the main seal. For now I'll live with one or two drips a day as long as it's not affecting the clutch. I plan on fixing that before the trace rental.

sutyak

03-17-2015, 06:44 PM

What's the max timing that ecu can pull?

I'm looking around my tuning software and see that the amount of spark the ECU can pull is adjustable. Not that I'd want to increase it. It is currently set to be able to pull 12 degrees up to 5500 RPM, then 9 degrees above that.

ERR0RMACR0

03-17-2015, 10:06 PM

Just caught up on this thread--damn, man, nice progress! Looking forward to seeing more and hopefully seeing it in person someday!

sutyak

03-17-2015, 10:10 PM

Just caught up on this thread--damn, man, nice progress! Looking forward to seeing more and hopefully seeing it in person someday!
Thanks! Ran it up to 19psi today before a meth nozzle connector worked loose. I hope that's a one time thing. Sprayed water/meth all over my intake manifold and of course a boost leak.

ERR0RMACR0

03-17-2015, 10:14 PM

Thanks! Ran it up to 19psi today before a meth nozzle connector worked loose. I hope that's a one time thing. Sprayed water/meth all over my intake manifold and of course a boost leak.

That sucks :( Hate when something like that happens. Were you WOT when it happened?

phillysrt4

03-17-2015, 10:16 PM

sutyak

03-18-2015, 06:42 AM

That sucks :( Hate when something like that happens. Were you WOT when it happened?
Yep. I guess 19psi was the magic number for it to work loose, because it would hit 19 and start to "flutter" like the boost wasn't being held. Well the meth nozzle connector was lifting and causing a boost leak. If I let off and get back in it the boost would be smooth again right up to 19.
I was thinking spark blowout until I saw the nozzle.

phillysrt4

03-18-2015, 08:22 AM

So can you use the SRT boost leak fix for this (zip ties)?? :)

sutyak

03-18-2015, 08:25 AM

So can you use the SRT boost leak fix for this (zip ties)?? :)

Hey now. I LOVE my zip ties! Even the smallest zip ties I've pressure tested to over 100psi. I'm pretty sure the line would burst before they broke. :rofl:

phillysrt4

03-18-2015, 08:32 AM

Hey now. I LOVE my zip ties! Even the smallest zip ties I've pressure tested to over 100psi. I'm pretty sure the line would burst before they broke. :rofl:

:rofl: zip ties are an SRT owner's best friend. Ask anyone who has owned one!

JeffreyCole

03-18-2015, 12:04 PM

26073

Zip-Tie love is strong in the DSM world too.

Username on here Dewayne's 1g DSM on the way to the 2013 Buschur Racing DSM/Evo/GT-R shootout in Norwalk.

Edit: Pre-Plastidip photo even!

phillysrt4

03-18-2015, 02:07 PM

Just had a moment of inspriation: "Zip-Tie Mafia" :rofl:

ERR0RMACR0

03-18-2015, 02:08 PM

26073

Zip-Tie love is strong in the DSM world too.

Username on here Dewayne's 1g DSM on the way to the 2013 Buschur Racing DSM/Evo/GT-R shootout in Norwalk.

Edit: Pre-Plastidip photo even!

That's really funny

sutyak

03-18-2015, 08:10 PM

Well that 19psi stutter wasn't the meth connection. It happened on tonight's data logging, too. I'm guessing it's spark blowout, or my chinese blow off valve isn't holding. My new bov should be here in the next few days. I'd be surprised if it's the plugs, as they are only gapped to .035". A quick google search shows other cheap bovs that don't hold above 19psi.

JeffreyCole

03-18-2015, 08:28 PM

sutyak

03-18-2015, 08:57 PM

A leaking blow off valve should cause a rich condition in a Maf car, as it would be a big ass boost leak.

Personally, I think your gap is too wide. My stock gap in the DSM is .028, and I usually run .024-.025. Closing the plug gap is free. Give it a shot.
Great info. I'll close up the gap and run it again this weekend. [emoji106]
On another note, the Torsen limited slip is just amazing. I fought so much wheelspin before. No way my one all season spinning would have held up to this much boost.

PaxtonShelby

03-18-2015, 10:57 PM

Good to hear the Torsen is worth the $$$.

sutyak

03-24-2015, 09:06 PM

Well I've been quiet because I ran into fueling issues, or I thought I had. It turns out the MAFia is pegging around 3.5v-3.6v, even though the MAF without it hits 4.5V+ fine.
I thought it was demanding too much fuel at 19psi, but the boost pressure had nothing to do with it, and the fuel pump duty cycle wasn't even 70%. The common factor was the MAF volts. After much reading it turns out another Duratec Focus owner ran into their MAFia pegging at 3.5V.
When using the MAFia the car felt like it hit a rev limiter around 3.5v MAF and 1.9 fuel pump flow. (I'm not sure what the fuel pump flow units are)
Today I removed the MAFia and ran it up to 4.5v and 2.3 fuel pump flow with no cutout.
I'll be ditching the MAFia and going with a wider range MAF sensor; either the SCT, Pro-M, or VMP. From what I've read they are all basically the same thing.
For now I'll stick to 12psi until I get the MAF situation worked out. It's already in a 3" MAF housing and is basically pegged at 12psi.

sutyak

03-25-2015, 07:18 AM

On a positive note I got the MAP sensor input to the XCal2 working. To share a dumb moment, I originally hooked it up to the same boost line as the boost controller, which is a bleeder valve style. Well of course it never read correctly since the pressure in that line was never what it was in the intake manifold! I finally picked up some more hose Ts and hooked it up with the meth controller.
This type of boost controller certainly spikes before settling.

The BIG thing I'm glad about in this chart is the violet line which is the Fuel Pump Flow Rate. It reach a new max after removing the MAFia. MAF counts here got up to 905, but it's not on this chart.
yellow = boost (12.7psi spike settled to 11.5psi)
blue = AFR
greenish/orange? = load
grey? = rpm
Yes I'm colorblind...:laughing:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/MAPSensor12psi.jpg

Tom

03-25-2015, 08:19 AM

sutyak

03-25-2015, 08:35 AM

Is it possible to max out the maf sensor before it gets scaled by the mafia? So if you hit 15psi and its 7v on the maf, but it can only do 7v total, then the mafia (@50%) would be stuck at 3.5v on anything above 15psi.

Did it scale right at lower psi?

I think that explanation would defeat the purpose of the MAFia; if the MAFia couldn't prevent the MAF from pegging then there is no point using it.
It scaled up to 3.5v, regardless of PSI and setting.
So I was able to crank the boost up to 19psi on setting "3" on the MAFia, but it still pegged at 3.5v. So technically I could keep cranking the MAFia settings up and live within the 0-3.5v range, but then my overall resolution goes to crap and I'd probably have to set my idle around 1300 RPM just to stay in range. The MAFia has settings from 0-8 I believe.

Without MAFia, I (nearly) max out the stock MAF at 12psi and 6500 RPM. No fuel cut. MAF at 4.5v.
MAFia setting 2, maxed out at 12psi and 6000 RPM. Fuel cut. Scaled MAF at 3.5v.
MAFia setting 3, maxed out at 15psi and 5500 RPM, or 19psi at 5000 RPM. Fuel cut. Scaled MAF at 3.5v.

JeffreyCole

03-25-2015, 09:11 AM

sutyak

03-25-2015, 09:17 AM

This page has the correct scaling of the sensor.

https://www.diablosport.com/products/mafia.html

Don't know what that particularly means, as I ditched my maf long ago and went to speed density.

Edit:

this might help more.

https://www.diablosport.com/manualFiles/mafiatuninginstructions.pdf

You have to adjust your tune based on what scaling you use on the MAFiA

Yep, I'm not new to the MAFia, I've just never pushed it this far. I used to run a MAFia on my original turbo setup, but that little IHI turbo I had certainly didn't flow like this garrett.

JeffreyCole

03-25-2015, 09:29 AM

Something has to be a little wonky to cause the maf to max at 3.5 volts though.... doesn't seem right to me...

Of course my MAF sensor back in the day was measured in frequency (Hz), so again... apples/oranges comparison to what you are doing.

What are your options when it comes to Speed Density converisons?

Standalone?

Tom

03-25-2015, 10:00 AM

My car uses a fixed frequency reduction so in my case it would be the maf hitting a max threshold before being scaled.

In your case, it seems like its the mafia, I would try calling them.

sutyak

03-25-2015, 10:00 AM

sutyak

03-25-2015, 10:15 AM

My car uses a fixed frequency reduction so in my case it would be the maf hitting a max threshold before being scaled.

In your case, it seems like its the mafia, I would try calling them.

I am definitely curious what Diablosport has to say. I sent them an email but will call if I don't hear back.

sutyak

03-25-2015, 11:30 AM

Talked with Diablosport, and their response is "If it's set up correctly in the tune it should work". Very canned response from them with no real interest in delving in any deeper.
I'm going to try the SCT BA5000 MAF sensor. Perhaps if I run into any issues with it I'll get better support from SCT since I'm already a customer with the XCal2 and pro racer package.

cwh19

03-25-2015, 10:58 PM

Has anyone in this circle used a factory style slot maf from a newer car? The resolution is much better than a hot wire style maf.

SlowSix

03-25-2015, 11:04 PM

Has anyone in this circle used a factory style slot maf from a newer car? The resolution is much better than a hot wire style maf.

I'm using a MAFia and 05+ gt slot maf. Don't remember what the mafia is set to. Also don't know anything about tuning, so I guess I can't really help lol

sutyak

03-30-2015, 08:40 PM

The SCT BA-5000 MAF just arrived today and I've spent this evening dialing in the low end of it. I started with the MTF provided by SCT, which basically just got it to start. The resolution is very different. Since this MAF in a 3" housing supports over 800whp and I'm only going to use half of that, imagine how tight the lower end of this is! I haven't even started retuning in-boost yet.

JeffreyCole

03-30-2015, 08:42 PM

sutyak

03-30-2015, 08:47 PM

Just out of curiosity, what fuel pump are you running in conjunction with the boost a pump?
Stock. It supports over 400whp and going by my logs I believe it.

JeffreyCole

03-30-2015, 08:52 PM

Stock. It supports over 400whp and going by my logs I believe it.
I just mention it, because most in tank pumps are equipped with a pressure relief valve, that pops open at a specific pressure, defueling the motor, and causing a lean spike, and one hell of a stutter.

I have no experience with the focus fuel pump, but I thought it might be something worth looking into if this doesn't work, as 19 psi is most likely 62.5 lbs of fuel pressure, assuming a 43.5 base pressure.

That seems like a lot for a pump not really intended for a forced induction application.

Just food for thought if this doesn't solve the problem.

sutyak

03-30-2015, 08:55 PM

I just mention it, because most in tank pumps are equipped with a pressure relief valve, that pops open at a specific pressure, defueling the motor, and causing a lean spike, and one hell of a stutter.

I have no experience with the focus fuel pump, but I thought it might be something worth looking into if this doesn't work, as 19 psi is most likely 62.5 lbs of fuel pressure, assuming a 43.5 base pressure.

That seems like a lot for a pump not really intended for a forced induction application.

Just food for thought if this doesn't solve the problem.
Good info. I hadn't heard that before.

JeffreyCole

03-30-2015, 08:57 PM

Good info. I hadn't heard that before.
Do you see anything abnormal in the log with the afr's when this happens? (Assuming you have a logged wideband, that is).

You should see it shooting lean during the breaking up.

sutyak

03-30-2015, 09:02 PM

Do you see anything abnormal in the log with the afr's when this happens? (Assuming you have a logged wideband, that is).

You should see it shooting lean during the breaking up.
Fuel cut is essentially what happens. Fuel pump voltage drops rapidly and afr spikes but with no load, and no knock.

sutyak

04-02-2015, 03:40 PM

Look what followed me home...
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150402_114556.jpg

I bought it used. According to the serial number it's a GT3076, except the compressor wheel is actually an 82mm billet wheel with a matching 82mm HTA compressor housing. Imagine my surprise seeing that shiny billet wheel when I was expecting a cast 76mm. That would make it a GTX3082R, if there were such a thing.
Now I need to decide whether to run it and put up with a bit more lag, or step down a bit for something a bit more fun on the street.
The 82mm wheel should push around 68lb/min. That's a good bit larger than I was going for, and definitely more flow potential than I'll use this year with this fuel system.
If my goal this year is 400whp, then the GT2871R will push that maxed out with a great power curve. The GT3082 would hit that easily, but I'm afraid the power "under the curve" will be less with the slower spool time.

JeffreyCole

04-02-2015, 03:44 PM

sutyak

04-02-2015, 03:58 PM

More lag? More rpm.

Problem solved.

That is an option. I'm not sure the cams will breathe will enough above 7K where I'd need to run it. Upgraded cams, fuel system, charge piping and possibly turbo manifold to really take advantage of this beast. Sounds like a 2016 build thread. :woot1:
There is another Focus owner with the earlier Zetec motor and a GT3082R that just ran a 10.4. Makes 620whp at 32psi. Hard to argue with that.

JeffreyCole

04-02-2015, 04:02 PM

sutyak

04-02-2015, 04:06 PM

Jeez... I'm hoping to be able to shift mine below 8500 this year Lol....

I guess those are the differences between an engine more geared for economy from the factory and a car geared more toward performance.

These are fairly mild cams, but still better than stock for sure. Not "turbo" cams though, so there is still room for improvement there. That being said I haven't dyno'd it yet, so these cams may be perfectly fine. I won't be revving to 8500 RPM though! 8000 would be the max on this setup. Stock redline is 7K.

JeffreyCole

04-02-2015, 04:42 PM

Lift and duration?

phillysrt4

04-02-2015, 05:18 PM

Good info. I hadn't heard that before.

my mustang's fuel pump works this way. the valve opens at 58psi

phillysrt4

04-02-2015, 05:20 PM

If my goal this year is 400whp, then the GT2871R will push that maxed out with a great power curve. The GT3082 would hit that easily, but I'm afraid the power "under the curve" will be less with the slower spool time.

looks like you need to increase your goal! :)

SWEET turbo. If you dont want it id be tempted to take it.

JeffreyCole

04-02-2015, 05:25 PM

sutyak

04-02-2015, 08:47 PM

Apparently Focuses (Foci?) dont have a traditional fuel pressure regulator, but the pump cycles on and off to regulate pressure?

Some searches also indicate that base fuel pressure for these cars is 40 PSI.

The problem seems to be occurring at 19psi if memory serves correctly.

Which would be ... 59PSI of total fuel pressure (with a 1:1 rate increase with boost).

Im REALLY curious to see if ths problem still happens at 19psi of boost.

If you read back through, it doesn't occur with boost, but specific to 3.5v with the MAFia. I could reproduce with 15psi or 19psi, just different RPMs.

Cam specs:

MILD DAILY STREET USE: Idle-6500RPM
Good Idle, good low end and strong mid range power. OK for automatic or manual trans. For max HP use low restriction air intake and free flow exhaust. Valve Springs and Retainers- Not Required. Use stock compression ratio. ECU Re-Flash Recommended, but not mandatory.

Part Number: 224-0010
Grind Number: F-212/354-2SR-10
RPM Power Range: 1000-6000
Duration Intake @.050": 212
Duration Exhaust @.050": 204
Advertised Duration Intake : 232
Advertised Duration Exhaust: 224
Lobe Separation: 110
Valve Lash Intake: 0.01
Valve Lash Exhaust: 0.012
Gross Valve Lift Intake: 0.374
Gross Valve Lift Exhaust: 0.354

phillysrt4

04-03-2015, 04:18 PM

sounds like the "crane 12" cams for the SRT from back in the day.

sutyak

04-04-2015, 04:30 PM

The 3082 fits with a spare cast manifold I picked up recently, except it orients the turbo opposite how I have it now. I'd need a new downpipe, wastegate dump, ambient, and partial hot side to make it work. (so nearly everything)
If it fits with my current manifold then I would only need an ambient side and minor changes to the downpipe and hot side. I've decided to run the turbo eventually. I do think I'll need turbo-specific cams to help it spool.
Obviously I haven't clocked the turbo yet. I do plan on sending it off for a rebuild since it's used and I don't know all the history.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150404_115251.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150404_115238.jpg

sutyak

04-04-2015, 09:14 PM

A fun little history of the turbos of my Focus. I wish I had a vise view of the same angle for better perspective.

Turbo 1: IHI RHB52 from a Tbird. 52mm compressor wheel:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/OldCompWheelOnTurbo.jpg

Turbo 1 + upgrade: IHI RHB52 and TD04 56mm compressor wheel:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/NewCompWheelOnTurbo.jpg

Tubbo 2: Garrett GT2871R. 71mm compressor wheel (current):
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_9696.jpg

Turbo 3: Garrett GTX3082R 82mm compressor wheel (future):
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150402_114556.jpg

PaxtonShelby

04-04-2015, 09:29 PM

Wwwwwwwwooooooossshhhhhhh!!!!!

phillysrt4

04-04-2015, 09:44 PM

those are some cool turbo pics.

If you run across a pair of 30 frame turbos let me know :)

sutyak

04-04-2015, 09:46 PM

those are some cool turbo pics.

If you run across a pair of 30 frame turbos let me know :)
Will do. I decided to keep the 82mm and grow into it. A pair of 3076 or GTX3071R would be amazing on that coyote.

phillysrt4

04-05-2015, 10:05 AM

Will do. I decided to keep the 82mm and grow into it. A pair of 3076 or GTX3071R would be amazing on that coyote.

That's my fall 2016/winter 2017 build (built motor along with a manual trans that will hold up to it) unless I pop the motor sooner so I have an excuse to go hardcore :twothumbsup::twothumbsup:

PaxtonShelby

04-05-2015, 02:49 PM

I like the forethought here!!!

sutyak

04-08-2015, 08:38 AM

Different MAF, same story. The car still cuts out around 15psi and 6500 RPM (approximately). Or 20psi and 5000 RPM, etc. The fuel pump is only at 70%. Looking at my logs I think my 60# injectors are maxed out. With the 3082R sitting on the shelf I'm going to skip the 80# and go to 96# or 127# injectors.
I also bought a spare fuel tank to play around with. I will likely modify it for a return fuel setup while maintaining the stock fuel level float. If I think I can still run a returnless setup without running dry on launch then I may stick with that and drop in a 400lph walbro pump. I want to have my hands on a spare tank and pump holder before I make any assumptions.

Tom

04-08-2015, 09:38 AM

sutyak

04-08-2015, 09:43 AM

60s are definetly maxxed out at 400whp on a 4 cylinder. I'm running the bosch racing 127s on my car with a surge tank with 2 deatschwerks dw300s (and 1 in tank to fill the surge tank). The bosch racing injectors are supposed to have excellent control on the lower end compared to the cng injectors that a lot of people run.

I was also considering a surge tank. I'm not sure of all the benefits of a surge tank other than being able to use the stock tank and pump. Wouldn't a full return system with one big pump be simpler?

Tom

04-08-2015, 09:47 AM

The fiero's gas tank isn't the greatest design in the world, so the surge tank gives you some protection if the gas sloshes away from the in-tank pump.

sutyak

04-08-2015, 09:50 AM

The fiero's gas tank isn't the greatest design in the world, so the surge tank gives you some protection if the gas sloshes away from the in-tank pump.

Ah OK. There are a couple Focus guys who do the same thing because of the location of the fuel pump.
My thoughts (without having the tank in front of me) were to use the spare tank and add bungs to it and the bottom/rear for a return setup. I could probably just use the existing evap port for the return, but again just talking out my ear without even looking at it yet.

phillysrt4

04-08-2015, 07:17 PM

60s are definetly maxxed out at 400whp on a 4 cylinder.

I have to agree with this. I had 680cc (65#) on my car pushing close to 400 and I didn't have too much left.

sutyak

04-16-2015, 01:16 PM

Still fighting tuning issues. I typically tune myself, but the SCT software has some non-intuitive parameters that aren't in any documents and tend to be kept between SCT and dealers. A pet peeve of mine.
Anyway I've enlisted the help of a pro tuner to help me get around it.
The software is clipping spark and cutting fuel. I thought it may have been the MAF, then fuel injectors, considered fuel pump, but fuel pressure is holding well enough it shouldn't be happening.
Oh well I needed to step up to ID1000's for the next turbo anyway. Unless it's some dealer tuner secret I'll post up what the fix is when we find it. Hopefully we'll get this fixed soon.

sutyak

04-18-2015, 05:45 PM

WOOOO! With some help from a professional tuner friend of mine tweaking some values that I can't even see in the SCT Pro Racer Package the car is running like a champ! :pepper:
After some Mexico pulls against a 2015 STi and a 2015 Audi S3, I think my target of 11.9 with the GT2871R might be a bit ambitious unless I swap wastegate springs. I pulled on both of them, but not 11.9 area.
It spikes to 22psi then peters off to about 18-19psi. There may be more left in the boost controller. I'd feel comfortable saying it's a solid mid-12 car. There's definitely more in this motor.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Car%20Meets/IMG_20150418_114751.jpg

PaxtonShelby

04-18-2015, 06:10 PM

Great to hear you have her running strong. You deserve it after all the time and effort you have put into the build!

Stangman701

04-20-2015, 08:37 AM

sutyak

04-20-2015, 09:03 AM

That's so annoying that stuff you can't even see on the PRP was causing your problems. Makes me think twice about going that route if I ever decide to buy Ford tuning software.. Glad you got it sorted out though. Looking forward to seeing what times you can get this year

Yeah, annoying is an understatement. I'm grateful to know a tuner who will help me out in times like this, but beyond frustrated with SCT for hiding such settings in the pro racer package. The fact that SCT and dealers keep vital tuning information between themselves and don't share it to pro racer package users is awful.
What happens is SCT doesn't even know all the variables necessary to tune a car. A professional tuner, through painstaking hours on a dyno will find the magical combination of settings and report back to SCT.
That information is not shared with the pro racer package community, and non-obvious settings or even non-existent settings in the pro racer package are not made available.

Apparently my ECU in particular is tricky to tune. I've run into a few occasions where a setting doesn't actually take. My tuner friend had to try 3 different tweaks to get around my fueling issue.

All that being said, I don't think tuning should involve magic tricks and secrets between dealers and tuners. I will avoid SCT in the future if possible and go with a stand-alone DIY system like megasquirt, where I will know every single data input and calculation and have a better support community. There is an SCT pro racer forum, but the majority of the questions go unanswered.

JeffreyCole

04-20-2015, 09:48 AM

Yeah, annoying is an understatement. I'm grateful to know a tuner who will help me out in times like this, but beyond frustrated with SCT for hiding such settings in the pro racer package. The fact that SCT and dealers keep vital tuning information between themselves and don't share it to pro racer package users is awful.
What happens is SCT doesn't even know all the variables necessary to tune a car. A professional tuner, through painstaking hours on a dyno will find the magical combination of settings and report back to SCT.
That information is not shared with the pro racer package community, and non-obvious settings or even non-existent settings in the pro racer package are not made available.

Apparently my ECU in particular is tricky to tune. I've run into a few occasions where a setting doesn't actually take. My tuner friend had to try 3 different tweaks to get around my fueling issue.

All that being said, I don't think tuning should involve magic tricks and secrets between dealers and tuners. I will avoid SCT in the future if possible and go with a stand-alone DIY system like megasquirt, where I will know every single data input and calculation and have a better support community. There is an SCT pro racer forum, but the majority of the questions go unanswered.

Total Horseshit. If I pay for the ability to tune my own car, I expect to be able to tune it myself, and blow it up myself at the same time. You shouldn't get special privileges just because you are a "professional".

I have seen just as many people who claim to be professionals half ass tune something as I have seen "regular joes" who have the same skillset when it comes to "tuning".

sutyak

04-24-2015, 01:18 PM

I decided to stick with the GT2871R for the near future and ordered an extra 3.6psi wastegate spring to put it up to 15.2psi off the wastegate. This should help keep the boost at a solid 22-23psi through redline with the boost controller instead of dropping to 18-19psi. I'm also going to remove the spring/ball gate from the wastegate to help keep the boost smooth instead of spiking. I also have a extra 7.2psi spring if I want to make 18.8psi the new minimum and push the 2871 to 25-26psi.

I did a 3rd gear 2400RPM - 7200RPM WOT pull a couple days ago and the tires broke loose at 4500 RPM (60mph, 22psi) until the boost settled to 18.5psi, then it found traction again. That's with a limited slip and 235/40-17 BFG's. The car should feel even better with that extra 3.6psi.

somethingclever

04-24-2015, 02:15 PM

sounds pretty nasty Mark....glad to hear it is running strong now.

Hoping to see it at the rental in June...

sutyak

04-24-2015, 02:22 PM

sounds pretty nasty Mark....glad to hear it is running strong now.

Hoping to see it at the rental in June...
I'll be there!

sutyak

05-01-2015, 01:41 PM

I picked up a 5.8psi wastegate spring to go with the 11.6psi that is in there for 17.4psi off the wastegate. I decided to skip the 3.6psi spring. Assuming the boost controller can bleed off around 8psi, that will put it around 25psi. I'm also adding a 3" tapered inlet on the turbo instead of the current 2.25" with a new 3" inlet hose and air filter. I should have changed the current air filter a long time ago.
In the next couple weeks I'll tear back into it. The main seal is still leaking a bit, the traction bars need mounted, and I have a set of H&R coilovers I want to try out. June 19th I take it to the track. I also have a set of spare axles - just in case.

The 3082R is also done with new seals and I should get that back soon. Sometime this summer I'll likely fab up a quick setup with the FSWerks T3 manifold I have to see how the 3082 feels on the street. If it's not a dog I'll push forward with my build and upgrade the fuel system and then eventually a manifold from Turbo Turtle.
If I don't care for the 3082 then the 2871R will stay on indefinitely and stick with a stock fuel system.

sutyak

05-04-2015, 12:12 PM

Just got the 3082 back from the shop from cleaning, seals, and inspection. At some point I HAVE TO try this thing on my car. It's just too pretty to not use it!

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/6a49a40f-fa9a-47a0-b4ae-6385a598ab75.jpg

phillysrt4

05-05-2015, 09:15 PM

sutyak

05-05-2015, 09:23 PM

Wow, just got caught up on all your tuning woes. Sorry to hear that. I was pulling the trigger on an SCT handheld and the pro racer package but you are giving me second thoughts on that.

As for the 3082 it would be fun to do the side by side comparison. I'd slap that on and see what she'll do. My gut says you'll be going back to the 2871R for the spoolup and powerband characteristics.
My ecu seems to be exceptionally tricky.
Yeah I have to try the big 3082R. The 5000 RPM to full spool might drive me crazy. I nearly traded it today for a 3076R but couldn't do it.
Maybe I'll turn this into a dyno queen lol. I'll definitely keep the 2871R until I get a feel for the spool time of the 3082R.

SlowSix

05-06-2015, 09:41 AM

Who did you have rebuild your turbo ? I think mine needs new seals. It is a turbonetics though.

sutyak

05-06-2015, 09:49 AM

Who did you have rebuild your turbo ? I think mine needs new seals. It is a turbonetics though.

http://turbolabofamerica.com
It's a smaller 2 or 3 person shop and they don't do balancing, so you'd have to trust them to appropriately mark the compressor wheel and install in the same spot to maintain balance.
The cost was $180 for cleaning, inspection, new seals, some hardware, and I think they also replaced a cage pin to tighten it up. That included return shipping. I haven't run it yet, but I'm trusting the wheel balance was maintained. Visually I'm impressed with how it came out, and the shaft is definitely tighter with no play. It took about a month.

http://gpopshop.com if you want to be 100% sure of the balance, but it costs about $200 more plus another $45 for balancing. They will also use the compressor wheel marking method unless you specifically request it to be rebalanced.

sutyak

05-09-2015, 11:28 AM

So I decided to take the easy way and bought a downpipe made for a mazdaspeed 3 for my 3082R build. I bought it figuring I would need to modify it, but it will still save me a ton of fabrication time. For $138 it's well worth it to me.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150509_100704.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150509_100902.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150509_100931.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150509_100812.jpg

sutyak

05-10-2015, 11:00 PM

Feeling pretty good about my car tonight. Turbo Focus at 19psi == 2015 BMW M3. :biggrin:
Dead even until an undisclosed high number then he slowly inched ahead. I'll take it!

SlowSix

05-10-2015, 11:02 PM

thanks for the info on the turbo stuff.
It seems like it only smokes when it is colder outside, strangely enough.

And your down pipe is so shiny....

sutyak

05-10-2015, 11:11 PM

thanks for the info on the turbo stuff.
It seems like it only smokes when it is colder outside, strangely enough.

And your down pipe is so shiny....

Do you have an oil restrictor on it?
The downpipe won't be shiny after I hack and reweld it to fit.

SlowSix

05-10-2015, 11:59 PM

Do you have an oil restrictor on it?
The downpipe won't be shiny after I hack and reweld it to fit.

I do have a restrictor yeah. Don't remember what size. I got it from race part solutions.

sutyak

05-13-2015, 07:01 PM

Looks like I can't use the traction bars. The passenger side would run right through the hot side piping. Unless I want to add 4' of piping or have it dragging the ground I'm out of luck. Maybe I'll have a low hot side configuration just for drag days and leave the traction bars off for the street.

sutyak

05-15-2015, 08:10 PM

Update time. I tore into the car again to check on a main seal leak. The seal was perfectly fine, but I didn't use enough sealant at the bottom.
While taking things apart I ran into a couple issues that pushed me to go ahead with the 3082R build. I'll be using the stock coolant expansion tank since the air filter will be on the driver's side again.
So far I have the main seal fixed, the transmission back in, and welded up the new 50MM BOV flange. I also added a 5.8psi wastegate spring to the 11.6psi spring for a base 17.4psi. With a drag day fast approaching, the priority is to get the downpipe and dump tube done. I'm trying to rush this so I'm doing more buying than fabricating this time.

Other items on my to-do list if I can get the turbo in quickly:
H&R coilovers on front. H&R race springs on back (stiffer than the coilovers).
Figure out the traction bars to work with my piping.

3082R vs 2871R
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3599.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3600.jpg

I can't believe how well this big turbo fits with the FSWerks manifold.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3606.jpg

The 4" inlet is tight, but it'll work
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3608.jpg

New JGS 50mm BOV vs. chinese junk. The JGS is a NICE piece, and comes with 3 springs to adjust what vac it opens at. It took a month for them to make it, but it's made in the USA and cheaper than the other brands.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3622.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3624.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3625.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3618.jpg

JeffreyCole

05-15-2015, 08:13 PM

I can't find anything on a 3082r.... What are the turbine dimensions? That really looks like a 3582hta to me.

sutyak

05-15-2015, 08:15 PM

I can't find anything on a 3082r.... What are the turbine dimensions? That really looks like a 3582hta to me.

It's a 3082R, not a 3582R. The 3082R is an extremely rare bastard turbo that people either seem to love or hate. It is also from HTA, so you got that part correct.

Here is the tag number, but even that comes up as a 3076R. I did measure the compressor exducer at 82mm. I did not measure the turbine.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150504_112417.jpg

JeffreyCole

05-15-2015, 08:20 PM

sutyak

05-15-2015, 08:54 PM

"HTA" is just a fancy nomenclature for some extended tip billet goodness.

If it is really a 30r turbine, you should see full boost well before 5k rpm. I see full boost around 4700 on a 35r sized turbine. Of course, I think the 4g63 head flows a bit better than the focus head, and my cams are quite a bit more aggressive than the specs you listed, so that all affects that stuff. Should be interesting to see the results.

Thanks. I'll learn all the nomenclature someday.
A quick google search looks like the 4g63 head and Duratec Focus head are actually very similar in flow! It's tough to find a base flow for the 2.0 Duratec, but a mild port flows 330cfm at .5" lift. My head has no work done to it and cam lift is just .38".

sutyak

05-15-2015, 09:11 PM

For those interested, ARP does make flywheel bots for the Duratec. This would be the 2.3, or any single-mass flywheel. That means they would be too short for the stock 2.0 flywheel.
These are FAR better than the junk from Ford. The heads are a beefy 19mm vs the 11mm from Ford that want to strip on every turn.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_3632.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150417_103126.jpg

JeffreyCole

05-15-2015, 09:16 PM

sutyak

05-15-2015, 09:18 PM

Gah. I finally found it. That's why I didn't recognize it. The 3082R is generally referred to as the GT3040r.

Its basically a 35r compressor on a 30r turbine. Spools a little slower than a 30r, a little more power than a 30r. Should be good for about 55-56 lbs/min or so. I'd guess spool would be in the 4200 range or so.

The compressor wheel is the same as the GTX3852R, which flows about 72lb/min. Now, granted the smaller turbine will hold it back some, but it's over 55lb/min.

JeffreyCole

05-15-2015, 09:20 PM

Depends on which exhaust housing you have, but I'd say 60 is possible on kill... All depends on how hard your setup let's you push it.

sutyak

05-15-2015, 09:22 PM

Depends on which exhaust housing you have, but I'd say 60 is possible on kill... All depends on how hard your setup let's you push it.

I know of a Focus that made 622whp at 32psi and runs 142mph in the 1/4 on this turbo, so I'd say 60 lb/min is definitely there.

JeffreyCole

05-15-2015, 09:24 PM

Looks like this track rental is going to be very interesting :)

sutyak

05-15-2015, 09:28 PM

Looks like this track rental is going to be very interesting :)
I won't have the fuel yet for much over 400whp for the rental. I need to sump the tank and go return fuel to really take advantage of this turbo.

My goal is still 11.9 with the stock fuel pump.

phillysrt4

05-17-2015, 12:55 PM

that wastegate you got is pure sex! Lookin' awesome!

sutyak

05-17-2015, 12:59 PM

that wastegate you got is pure sex! Lookin' awesome!
Thanks man, but that's my bov which sadly nobody will see unless they get under the car. My wastegate is much less sexy. It's a 38mm Tial with a corner ground down for fitment, haha!

SlowSix

05-17-2015, 05:28 PM

I have an rfl blow off....it is almost obnoxious, lol

sutyak

05-17-2015, 07:54 PM

I have an rfl blow off....it is almost obnoxious, lol
Lol. My Chinese one was an sqv style, whatever that is. It came with a plastic tri-star piece that made it sound like someone stomped on a mouse between shifts. I took the plastic squeaker out after a week.
I think the JGS will just sound like a rush of air, which is perfect.

SlowSix

05-17-2015, 09:13 PM

Lol. My Chinese one was an sqv style, whatever that is. It came with a plastic tri-star piece that made it sound like someone stomped on a mouse between shifts. I took the plastic squeaker out after a week.
I think the JGS will just sound like a rush of air, which is perfect.

mine sounds like you filled a 80 gallon compressor, and hooked up a hose to 100 psi, and then popped the hose out, lol

you can hear it here, it is much louder in person, and that is over both mine and the audi's exhaust, lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smBPBR1pyJ8

sutyak

05-17-2015, 09:55 PM

mine sounds like you filled a 80 gallon compressor, and hooked up a hose to 100 psi, and then popped the hose out, lol

you can hear it here, it is much louder in person, and that is over both mine and the audi's exhaust, lol

Man that is loud! [emoji106]

SlowSix

05-17-2015, 10:46 PM

Man that is loud! [emoji106]

it has a horn on it, lol
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21ZG7FXWEHL.jpg
I probably would have bought a Tial but I got this from a buddy off his subaru for cheap

sutyak

05-18-2015, 08:32 AM

While waiting on some parts to arrive in the mail I was able to get the H&R setup installed yesterday. I believe about all of the struts and shocks for the Ford Racing suspension were shot and leaking after only 40K miles or so. I think the dampers they paired with the springs were a poor combination. The H&R springs/dampers I bought were used, but still in great shape except for the strut mount bearings, so I swapped in the ones from the other setup. The Steeda rear sway bar is a monster compared to stock. I'm hoping it helps even out the rear, as this car tends to seriously understeer and then "wag" when coming out of a curve hard.
I believe this is the correct spring rates (lb/in):
Stock: F 110, R 117
Ford Racing: F 129, R 157
H&R: coilover F 370-460, (race) R 375

I mainly wanted the stiff rear springs to prevent squat on launch at the track. The front coilovers I wanted so I could adjust the height and lessen the rub of the 235 tires.
The rear sway bar is much heavier than the stock, but the coilovers are lighter aluminum instead of the steel struts as before, so I think the difference is made up. The car will also drop a few pounds losing the cat, and changing from some steel piping to aluminum or plastic.

Here is another shortcut I took to get the car done sooner than later. I bought a 4" flexible inlet pipe instead of fabricating one. This way the only thing I had to fabricate was a small bracket on the battery tray to hold the air filter in place. The 4" turbo inlet makes for some extremely tight fitment.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150517_194643.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150517_194712.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150517_194603.jpg

phillysrt4

05-18-2015, 11:56 AM

Thanks man, but that's my bov which sadly nobody will see unless they get under the car. My wastegate is much less sexy. It's a 38mm Tial with a corner ground down for fitment, haha!

glad you knew I meant BOV when i said wastegate ;) lol..

Dan B.

05-18-2015, 12:43 PM

glad you knew I meant BOV when i said wastegate ;) lol..

My blow off valve and wastegate are the same thing..........

MrAudia

05-18-2015, 03:32 PM

Very cool build!

sutyak

05-19-2015, 09:36 PM

Another productive evening. Purchasing the mazdaspeed downpipe was definitely a help. I had to modify it a decent amount to make it work, but it still saved me a lot of time. Before I bolt everything together I'll paint, bake, then wrap the downpipe. My welds aren't stainless, so they'll rust if I don't paint them. Tomorrow I'll make the dump tube.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3634.jpg

Old vs. new. The old one wasn't pretty but it served me well and didn't leak. The new one is much lighter without the cat and fewer joints. Big difference in downpipe angles since the turbo is oriented differently, but without the cat there was plenty of room to work.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3646.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3663.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3651.jpg

sutyak

05-20-2015, 11:47 AM

My modified fuel rail just arrived. -6AN in and out for the future return fuel setup. Maybe a late summer or fall project?
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150520_114018.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_20150520_114003.jpg

sutyak

05-21-2015, 06:51 AM

Finished the wastegate dump tube yesterday and painted it. Ran out of 1200° paint so I didn't do the downpipe yet. I really hate to have to paint them, but in a few months I'd hate the surface rust on the welds even more. The wastegate dumps right behind the crossmember.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3680.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3667.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3677.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3682.jpg

phillysrt4

05-23-2015, 04:38 PM

dibs on shotgun for the shakedown pass ;)

sutyak

05-28-2015, 09:01 PM

While everyone else is playing with goats... :biglaugh:

Now have a new A1000 pump, return fuel rail, and a spare (clean) fuel tank to sump. Just a few more pieces and I'll be ready for some real fueling. Probably late summer or fall project.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150528_203859.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150414_211437.jpg

JeffreyCole

05-28-2015, 09:06 PM

Holy cow that's a serious fuel setup man.

sutyak

05-28-2015, 09:09 PM

Holy cow that's a serious fuel setup man.

I always want to know there is fuel for whatever psi I throw at it. Not that those poor two front tires won't be abused enough at 400whp. We'll see how they scream for mercy at 500-600whp. :pepper:

JeffreyCole

05-28-2015, 09:10 PM

That's enough fuel for a crap ton more than 600 lol

sutyak

05-28-2015, 09:12 PM

That's enough fuel for a crap ton more than 600 lol

True! This particular FWD setup surely won't see over 600whp, though. I have no intent to put a cage in it. I never intended to put a little 200whp turbo in it either, though...

sutyak

05-31-2015, 08:21 AM

The 3082R is in! The verdict is still out on whether I'll keep this slow-spooling monster. It makes only 10psi at 4K RPMs, and 20psi roughly 5K. I haven't logged it, I just took it out for a quick drive to see how it feels/sounds. Obviously after it has spooled up it's a beast, but I'll most definitely have to rev it to 8K to make it worthwhile.
Where normally the 2871R would spool and help in 5th gear at 3K (70mph), the 3082R makes it basically N/A at that range, which makes me a bit sad after enjoying that torque.
The exhaust is a bit louder with no cat and the 30R turbine housing, and it sounds amazing. I wasn't sure what to expect with the dumped wastegate. Holy crap is it loud!! It's a good thing it spools so slowly or else I think I'd get sound violation tickets left and right in town.
The H&R setup is nothing short of amazing. It's far stiffer than the Ford Racing setup, but under control. It doesn't bounce my car around the road, it just stays planted. The rebound is controlled very well.

I decided to make a quick startup/walkaround video of the car. Forgive me for the production quality; I don't have an HD camera yet. I also don't think it actually recorded half the frequency range of the exhaust. It is DEEP.

http://youtu.be/SuYmP5XseSM

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3778.jpg

SlowSix

05-31-2015, 10:32 AM

looks good. I'd like to see this car some day.

phillysrt4

05-31-2015, 08:09 PM

Glad to get the report on the 82. I kind of suspected the spool was going to be really late due to the displacement you're working with, but I'm sure when it hits it hits hard! Are you able to consistently spin the motor to 8k to take advantage of it? Can you adjust your cams to help with the spoolup?

As someone who's done the turbo 4banger FWD thing I completely relate to the quandary you have between these two turbos I think this quote says it all:

Where normally the 2871R would spool and help in 5th gear at 3K (70mph), the 3082R makes it basically N/A at that range, which makes me a bit sad after enjoying that torque.

Setting aside the (lack of) traction, sure the raped ape part of the "laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggg....RAPED-APE!!1!one!!1!11!1!!11" is really fun and rewarding, but the wait to get there always drove me nuts.

Can't wait to see how this decision pans out.

sutyak

05-31-2015, 10:15 PM

OK, so I finally did some logging tonight and the 3082R spool isn't quite as bad as it feels. It's about 500RPM later than the 2871R after comparing some other logs. I am surprised how much I can feel that difference, though, especially hanging around the 3,000-3,500 RPM area. Unfortunately these logs are only pulling to 7K RPM, so the 3082R isn't getting to breathe yet. I need to adjust my rev limiter and shift light before any 8K pulls. I rely on the shift light because my tach only goes to 7K.

I also noticed my BOV is fully open at idle, which probably isn't helping my slow spool. I have a stiffer spring I just need to swap it out.
My exhaust is much louder now and I can hardly hear the BOV between shifts. It just sounds like a large volume of air releasing. No squeak/whistle/etc., which is nice.

Here is the spool time comparison from two logs. Both are WOT from approximately 2,500 RPM.
There is an obvious lag with the 3082R, and it's about 2-3psi lower until it spools up. The spikes are a bit different because of different wastegate springs.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/2871Rvs3082R_Spool.jpg

Here is the MAF count comparison, or roughly translated the airflow. It would be safe to read this just like a dyno sheet. As long as the counts are climbing, it's making more power.
To be fair, the counts on the 2871R line are dropping because the boost is not holding. That being said, they have leveled off about 6,500 RPM and no longer climb.
The 3082R, as expected would continue to climb with as much RPM as I can give it.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/2871Rvs3082R_MAF_Flow.jpg

All that being said, the 2871R is still more "fun" around town. However, if already rolling along and downshift to 4500-5000 RPM and stomp it then the 3082R spools FAST and hard. The 20psi is almost immediate, and wheel spin ensues.

Philly, I think 8K should be fine. 7K is the OEM redline, and my head is built with stronger valve springs and retainers. Some people rev to 8,500 RPM with this setup.
I don't have adjustable cam gears are the moment, but that could certainly help some.

sutyak

06-01-2015, 12:41 PM

A couple pics I forgot to post.

Another note is I changed where I'm feeding the coolant from. I'm now using the 1/4" outlet which typically goes directly to the coolant expansion tank. I'm using 1/4" into turbo and 3/8" out. Now I can clearly watch the coolant constantly flow into the expansion tank from the turbo, and it also removes a restriction in the heater core lines.

The cast FSWerks manifold had some pretty sharp edges in it that I cleaned up and smoothed out to help airflow. I also painted it with 2000 degree VHT paint, and properly heat cycle cured it on my grill.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3768.jpg

Everything heat wrapped. The turbo has a turbo blanket, but hard to see in the photo.
The glossy black paint on the dump tube is already burning off. It was 1200 degree Rustoleum grill paint I believe. I'll use 2000 degree VHT ceramic like is on the manifold and downpipe if I do it again.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3777.jpg

A little heat tape on the turbo since it's nearly touching the manifold.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/IMG_3770.jpg

somethingclever

06-01-2015, 12:52 PM

sutyak

06-01-2015, 01:22 PM

great info Mark....seems like if it were me, I would go back to the smaller turbo...then again I like diesel tractors. :)

I hope after all this work (aka..fun) on this fwd 5-door, you still use it for transporting around kids and fuel economy to work!

At this point I highly doubt I'll go back to the 2871R (450hp). I may step down to a 3071R (500hp) or 3076R (550hp). Honestly the 3082R (700hp) wasn't in my sights when considering a bigger turbo. It was an accidental purchase that ended up being a unique/rare turbo that I just had to try. I'll never be able to use the entire flow potential of the 3082R.
I'll definitely be running the 3082R for the track rental in three weeks. I'm hoping that lag will help save my axles. After a second in 1st gear at the track a bit of turbo lag won't be noticeable. It's a fairly stout N/A motor anyway with the higher compression and cams, so it's not a dog off the line anyway.

phillysrt4

06-01-2015, 05:37 PM

At this point I highly doubt I'll go back to the 2871R (450hp). I may step down to a 3071R (500hp) or 3076R (550hp).

the 3076 gets my vote if you're not keeping the 2871R. but it would be cool to run a dyno queen number with the 3082. It's perfect for that "800hp supra" power curve ;)

sutyak

06-02-2015, 10:10 AM

Played around with my buddy's cheap action cam last night. Forgive the quality and camera placement.
I actually meant to turn it up to about 20psi, but overshot that and didn't even know until I checked the logs. Spike was 27psi, haha! Stock fuel pump is nothing short of amazing. 24psi at 7800 RPM and it wasn't leaning out. I target 10.2 AFR above 6500 RPM, so the jump to 24psi did push it leaner than I like.
Fuel cut sucked when I hit the rev limiter. The car actually shut off! It came right back on when I shifted to 4th, but my logging software stopped logging.
Clearly 24psi is useless for daily driving. It's 75% wheelspin. 17.5psi off the wastegate is enough for my low boost setting.

I also don't really care for the dumped wastegate. It ruins the sound of the turbo. That doesn't mean I'll pipe it back in, I just miss hearing the turbo.

3500RPM - 7800RPM

https://youtu.be/rVCUnLWNjJM

sutyak

06-02-2015, 04:39 PM

Another video just driving normally. A bit boring but you get an idea what it sounds like and how aggressive the H&R suspension is.

https://youtu.be/vY83eDJAJZw

sutyak

06-04-2015, 04:12 PM

My GT2871R is in the for sale section now. I've decided I won't be going back to it at this point.
It's very likely I'll try a GTX3071R in the near future. I've had my eye on that turbo for a while now, and would like to see how it spools compared to the 3082. Going by the compressor map it looks like the PERFECT turbo for a 2.0L, but it certainly won't make the max power of the 3082.

Here is the monster I'm working with right now. Using the GTX3582 map since it shares the compressor side. The turbine map would be different.
You can see it spends most of the time before 4K RPM to the left of the surge line. No good.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/GTX3082R_2.0L.jpg

Here is a map with the 3071 and 3076 and GTX variants overlaid.
The GTX3071 stays nicely on the right side of the surge line, and it would just scream at 25psi to 8K RPM. HP limit is going to be about 485whp though, compared to the 3082R's 625whp. :bawling:
It should be a good compromise between big power and fast spool so it still feels like I have a turbo daily driving. It's very close to an HX35 map, but flows 5lb/min less.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/GTXs_2.0L.jpg

phillysrt4

06-05-2015, 05:46 PM

Its a good analysis! At the same time I think you may want to consider more than the map outline. Have you considered the efficiency islands as you approach peak power in the higher RPMS?

Here's my crappy drawings with the compressor maps. Notice how on the 71 at 55lb/min where it chokes out you're at the 60% or 65% efficiency island (hard to tell) whereas with the 76 you're in the low 70's at that flow.

Not saying the GTX3071 is a bad choice- IMO its one of the best "all around" choices in the 1.8-2.3 displacement range- but if you're enjoying the peak of the 3082 you might find the 3076 tradeoffs more enjoyable.

Either way I cant wait to see how this plays out!

sutyak

06-07-2015, 07:52 PM

Well this might make my decision of going with a smaller turbo more difficult. I added data points from my actual data logging at 24psi to the earlier 3082R compressor map, which was an estimated flow. The estimate was very close, but the actual is slightly better, with it being just to the right of the surge line every point after 3500 RPM. That means while the 3082R is big, it's not TOO big for my 2.0L, just darn close! :bouncy:
The smaller, non-bold font is from my data logs, with the blue and black line.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Turbo/GTX3082R_2.0L_FromDataLog.jpg

phillysrt4

06-07-2015, 08:16 PM

sutyak

06-07-2015, 08:19 PM

Wow that does make it tough indeed! It seems all you're really trading by going smaller is a SLIGHTLY better spoolup. You're going right into the sweet spot of the turbo as you hit peak power. It won't get any better as far as efficiency.

Can you save me some scrolling and let me know the AR of your hotside? I'm kinda with you and thinking of staying with the 82. The only reason why I wouldn't is if the ratio between the hot and cold sides is getting over 4:1. "Back in the day" a lot of people tried to port and clip the stock turbo on the SRT to get more out of it, but every increasing backpressure limited how much more you could get out of it versus a bigger turbo.

Hot side is .63, which is what came with the turbo but also what I wanted to help with spool, and it looks like it does help. I considered .82, but I'd only go with that if it looks like the .63 is going to hold me back. I think the log manifold will be the choke point before the hot side.

sutyak

06-08-2015, 01:45 PM

Dyno scheduled for Wednesday morning at Wolfpack Speed. Results will be posted Wednesday evening.

PaxtonShelby

06-08-2015, 03:19 PM

^^^^ Giddy up!! Good luck!

phillysrt4

06-08-2015, 04:38 PM

x2!! Please post up some numbers. Looks like you got the mad excel skills to superimpose some log data on the dyno graph too. This is gonna be awesome.

BTW - I don't think I would go AR .82 on the hot side. Looking at the GTX30 hotsides in .63 (if im reading the maps right) puts you at about a 3:1 worst case. not horrible, but not bad enough to switch to the 82 unless you're going with all new turbo.

sutyak

06-09-2015, 09:49 PM

Car is running well and the tune is basically dead on. I'm psyched. I haven't been on a dyno in years. The last time my car only made 204whp for a split second at like 4500 RPM with a tiny IHI turbo. Tomorrow should be interesting if my fuel pump holds out. Fingers crossed my junk stays together and shows me some good numbers. :jump:

PaxtonShelby

06-09-2015, 10:38 PM

Good luck!

phillysrt4

06-10-2015, 04:35 PM

Absolutely! Good luck, and here's to 400+ at the wheels.

PaxtonShelby

06-10-2015, 05:28 PM

So?????? How'd it go on this hot and sunny day?

sutyak

06-10-2015, 06:59 PM

It certainly wasn't the day I was hoping for. The dyno was a nice, smooth line until 5K at full boost, then my ignition goes nuts. I'm not sure at the moment if I need to step down my plugs, close the gap, or if it's a more significant ignition issue.
What I do notice is this graph looks a LOT like my dyno graph from 2012 with my little IHI turbo. That was also on the same plug (Autolite 103, 1 step colder, 27 gap).
There was not any significant timing being pulled; a couple degrees at the very top, but nothing crazy that would attribute to the plunge in power.
So, I have some things to look into. First will be a colder plug.

Some of today's dynos. I did a 26psi pull for the heck of it and made 350whp/363wtq, but that's not exactly a win. It should make MUCH more than that.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/Tuning/IMG_20150610_093852.jpg

Compare to one from 2012. Very different tune, different turbo, and different MAF configuration. Same type of plugs. Hits peak boost, then goes to crap.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/DynoSheet_Focus11012008.jpg

phillysrt4

06-10-2015, 07:58 PM

If you had an SRT i would say "boost leak" but in your case yeah, maybe a colder plug would help.

sutyak

06-10-2015, 08:02 PM

If you had an SRT i would say "boost leak" but in your case yeah, maybe a colder plug would help.

The only boost leak I had was when I blew an intercooler pipe on the way home. This is why I always travel with 10 and 11mm deep sockets...

JeffreyCole

06-10-2015, 08:03 PM

Were you tuning on the dyno or just making power pulls?

sutyak

06-10-2015, 08:06 PM

Were you tuning on the dyno or just making power pulls?

Logging and power pulls mainly. Only tune change I made was pulling some fuel up top, but that did not help. That just resulted in some timing being pulled. As far as AFR and timing goes, my tune is as close as I can get it until I figure out this ignition issue. I'm sure that will cause some havoc on my current tune.

no1sirbutler

06-10-2015, 08:30 PM

D you have a graph of your A/F?

Tom

06-10-2015, 08:39 PM

Im going to guess you run a 12.5@108

SlowSix

06-10-2015, 09:36 PM

The only boost leak I had was when I blew an intercooler pipe on the way home. This is why I always travel with 10 and 11mm deep sockets...

I feel your pain. I think I have them on there pretty good now though.

Sucks about the ignition thing. I'm sure you will get it figured out !

sutyak

06-11-2015, 07:57 AM

I'm getting a lot of thoughts from the Focus guys also suspecting I'm running too hot of a plug. I ordered a set of two step colder plugs (7) that I'll try asap. I won't make it back to the dyno anytime soon since it's 1.5 hours away, and $100/hr.
Tom, yeah my goal of 11.9 1/4 is out the window until I get this figured out. I anticipate running 110-114mph even with the spark issues.

D you have a graph of your A/F?

It's 12.0 until 4.5K, then ramps down to 10.5 quickly when the meth injection starts spraying hard.

JeffreyCole

06-11-2015, 08:13 AM

sutyak

06-11-2015, 08:26 AM

10.5, with meth? That seems kinda rich to me, but Every engine is different. I know my car likes about 11.0 on 93 for maximum power. Any richer and it feels sluggish. Leaner makes more power, but I pick up more knock that way, and knock is no bueno.

Yeah, I did a pull with 5% fuel pulled up top and that just resulted in the knock sensor pulling timing. This spark advance/AFR/Meth balance wasn't contributing to the ignition issues on the dyno, so I didn't mess with it anymore. I do like a nice rich mixture for the 10.4:1 CR, as it is very picky about having enough fuel or it knocks very easily.

JeffreyCole

06-11-2015, 09:17 AM

Yeah, 10.4 is pretty steep for a turbo motor on gas, even with the meth injection. What timing are you running out the top and at MBT?

sutyak

06-11-2015, 09:23 AM

Yeah, 10.4 is pretty steep for a turbo motor on gas, even with the meth injection. What timing are you running out the top and at MBT?

It progressively ramps down to 3 degrees advance at 6500 RPM. My timing table is load/spark. So higher load, lower spark.

JeffreyCole

06-11-2015, 09:27 AM

Damn. and I thought I wasn't running a lot of timing.

sutyak

06-11-2015, 09:30 AM

Damn. and I thought I wasn't running a lot of timing.

There are guys running negative timing for the tradeoff of higher compression, but it works. At least that's what I'm told. It's not as if I build and tune for a living. This is my first ground-up motor build, and while I've tuned THIS car extensively, it's the only car I have tuned. I'm just happy it stayed together on the dyno!! :pepper:

JeffreyCole

06-11-2015, 09:45 AM

There are guys running negative timing for the tradeoff of higher compression, but it works. At least that's what I'm told. It's not as if I build and tune for a living. This is my first ground-up motor build, and while I've tuned THIS car extensively, it's the only car I have tuned. I'm just happy it stayed together on the dyno!! :pepper:

There are guys who believe their way works better from both camps. I personally think it is a lot easier to tune a lower compression motor, with the trade off being that off boost throttle response.

Honestly though... That's what the little stick between the seats is for. Most guys in the DSM camp wont cross 10:0:1 without running Ethanol or race gas exclusively.

sutyak

06-11-2015, 10:25 AM

I finally got a chance to look at the graph in detail, and the good news is the power up to where it breaks up is dead on where it should be. Actually a couple whp higher than I estimated.
Assuming the fueling is there, and I can get this ignition issue worked out, that estimate had a peak of 500whp at 8K RPM at 25psi. I'm keeping my hopes up.

sutyak

06-12-2015, 08:10 AM

I had fitment issues with my other drag wheels, so I ordered a set of Team Dynamic Pro Race 1.2 15x8, and the fitment is excellent. I'll get the slicks mounted in the next day or so.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150611_162932.jpg

Also picked up a used 67mm throttle body (vs 63.4mm stock). Mainly to be able to clamp the T-bolt tighter, and be able to adjust the plate easier. This will take some getting used to. The spring is much stiffer than stock.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150611_180511.jpg

sutyak

06-14-2015, 07:59 PM

Picked up 5 different sets of spark plugs to try out, ranging from 2 steps to 3 steps colder. I tried a 2 step colder plug and it did seem to pull harder and didn't miss any like it was on the dyno, but I should get better metrics at the track on Friday.
I went to reseal part of my intake manifold and decided to test the WMI nozzle to ensure they were still functional. I'm glad I did because one was completely clogged. I'll never use windshield washer fluid again for the methanol content. It has way too many other things in it that build up easily in the WMI system. All nozzles are spraying cleanly now.
I also checked the compression just for piece of mind, and all cylinders are spot on 190.
I won't have anymore time this week to tweak the tune, so there will definitely be some tweaking at the track.

PaxtonShelby

06-14-2015, 08:37 PM

sutyak

06-14-2015, 08:44 PM

I can't wait to see that little beast run! You've got to be one of the hardest-working fellas out there when it comes to researching and tweaking your setup, especially considering how there aren't that many guys out there modding your type of car to this level. A big "ATTABOY" is definitely in order!

Thanks! :thumbsup:
I'm quite ready to be done working on it for a while, though. I just want to get it to a solid, tuned spot and get back to some other hobbies. I can only modify my car every couple years because I tend to "binge mod".

sutyak

06-15-2015, 09:41 PM

I think the Autolite 103's were running just a bit hot. :)

A new 103 vs the one I just took out that I think was blowing out.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150615_205551.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150615_205135.jpg

Autolite 103 vs. recessed tip NGK 3346
The 3346's seemed to run well.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150613_153057.jpg

sutyak

06-16-2015, 07:55 AM

Well I learned something this morning about that oily ring around the base of the insulator. I thought it was related to something being too hot, or possible blow-by through the plug itself. It's called a "corona stain (http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/techinfo/qa/q17/index.html)" and is completely normal for this type of head. The electrodes also look normal, so I guess visually the 103's look fine and I can't tell whether it's too hot of a plug just by looking at it.

JeffreyCole

06-16-2015, 08:05 AM

I'd say the 103 is one step too hot, based on the coloration of the ground strap. You want the place where the ground strap changes color to be right at the bend. Yours looks to be all the way at the base of the plug, indicating the plug is too hot.

Edit. Check this out for reading plugs.

http://www.pcmofnc.com/index.php/blog/34-tuning/53-how-to-read-spark-plugs

sutyak

06-16-2015, 08:09 AM

JeffreyCole

06-16-2015, 08:10 AM

Not a problem.

SlowSix

06-16-2015, 09:39 AM

I wanna see this car sometime.

sutyak

06-16-2015, 09:40 AM

I wanna see this car sometime.

Friday!

JeffreyCole

06-16-2015, 09:41 AM

^^ this!

SlowSix

06-16-2015, 10:15 AM

What is Friday ? Prp ?

sutyak

06-16-2015, 10:16 AM

What is Friday ? Prp ?

The track rental at PRP!

SlowSix

06-16-2015, 11:01 AM

Ah I didn't know that. Are people allowed to come out and hang out ?

sutyak

06-16-2015, 11:25 AM

Ah I didn't know that. Are people allowed to come out and hang out ?
Yep. $10 spectator fee I believe.

SCMC Track Rental - Friday June 19, 2015 (http://www.steelcitymusclecars.com/forums/showthread.php/30660-SCMC-Track-Rental-Friday-June-19-2015)

SlowSix

06-16-2015, 01:19 PM

Yep. $10 spectator fee I believe.

SCMC Track Rental - Friday June 19, 2015 (http://www.steelcitymusclecars.com/forums/showthread.php/30660-SCMC-Track-Rental-Friday-June-19-2015)

Dang, I don't get home from work till about 4

PaxtonShelby

06-16-2015, 01:42 PM

Spectators are free for the rental per PJ's update today.

JeffreyCole

06-16-2015, 01:55 PM

Spectators are free for the rental per PJ's update today.

Sounds like a good reason for SlowSix to call off work.

sutyak

06-17-2015, 04:28 PM

Slicks remounted on a new set of 15x8 wheels with a proper fitment. These actually fit completely in the wheel well. They are Team Dynamic Pro Race 1.2. They don't exactly match my black Kazera KZP's, but certainly better than a typical chrome set of drag wheels.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150617_155437.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/IMG_20150617_155451.jpg

Dan B.

06-17-2015, 05:02 PM

That's some real racecar stuff right there.

PaxtonShelby

06-17-2015, 06:14 PM

She's a bad little bee-yotch!!!!

sutyak

06-20-2015, 12:00 AM

Well I had a great time at the track today, even though not everything just fell into place as I had hoped.
The first run was on low boost and pretty smooth. I ran a 12.89 @ 107.5mph with a 2.01 60'.
The second run I flipped on the high boost and popped an intercooler coupler.
Third run was on high boost but it was breaking up again in the upper RPM, and thus didn't run any faster. After this I switched to a 3 step colder plug gapped at around .019.
The next run I popped the same coupler.
I was finally rewarded with a 12.43 @ 115 mph but a crappy 2.1 60' from getting the slicks too hot, but shifting at 7K RPM while still watching for the high RPM breakup. I think this was about 20psi. I can't recall at the moment.
After a cool down my last run was on the low boost (~16psi) and my cleanest of the day. 1.84 60' for a 12.51 @ 109mph. I actually meant to run higher boost but forgot to flip the switch!

Overall it was a learning experience for sure. I do believe I'm going to step down to a GTX3071R or equivalent and sell the big 3082R. I don't really care for he 5K+ power band, and I don't think it's a good match for this motor. I want to get back to a 4K+ power band. Today I really regretted selling the 2871R, as I think it was faster with that turbo up to 7K RPM.
I did not get the chance to rev it to 8K after putting in the colder plugs. It may have had 120mph in it; I'm not sure. It definitely has 11's as it sits. Too many variables to play with and not enough time in just one day.
My "first day out" goal today was 12.5, and I hit that at just 109mph, so I'm calling that a win. Hitting 115mph was just icing on the cake.
Also I pulled no weight except the spare tire. I actually ran with a trailer hitch on the back because I hauled my slicks on a cargo carrier.

I need to get a smaller wheel/combo tire for the rear. Those 17x7.5 wheels and 235/40-17 tires are like anchors at the track.

http://youtu.be/V3rp293ZP1s

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Racing/IMG_20150619_232547.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Racing/IMG_20150619_232510.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Racing/FocusPRP_06192015_burnout.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Racing/FocusPRP_06192015_1.jpg

PaxtonShelby

06-20-2015, 12:48 AM

Nice meeting you today bud! Congrats on the runs today. Your hard work is paying off!

sutyak

06-20-2015, 01:02 AM

Nice meeting you today bud! Congrats on the runs today. Your hard work is paying off!

You too! Maybe I'll get to see the '66 sometime. I definitely like that Sterling Gray '14!

Tom

06-20-2015, 09:29 AM

Your car was moving. I definetly underestimated the power its making. I'm glad to see all your work is coming together.

Stangman701

06-20-2015, 10:41 AM

Nice meeting you yesterday Mark. Glad you got some good runs in. I bet you'll be in the 11's at the next rental with some issues sorted out and better air!

TooFast98Cobra

06-20-2015, 11:03 AM

Great job . I was impressed !

sutyak

06-20-2015, 11:22 AM

Thanks all!

Here's an in-car video of the 12.43 at 115mph pass. It popped an intercooler pipe at the end of the run.

http://youtu.be/drw8Q0OSvlI

PaxtonShelby

06-20-2015, 11:25 AM

It is asking me to sign in to see the vid. Do you need to share it or something?

sutyak

06-20-2015, 11:27 AM

It is asking me to sign in to see the vid. Do you need to share it or something?

Ah thanks! I hadn't made it public yet.

sutyak

06-20-2015, 11:50 AM

One more video. 12.43 @ 115mph outside of car, complete with commentary from my dad and brother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_op5CWwyLk

sutyak

07-02-2015, 04:15 PM

Just ordered a custom ceramic ball bearing 58 trim GTX2871R from turbolabofamerica.com. They are the ones who refreshed my 3082R.
Basically I miss how my car felt with the GT2871R, and hate it around town with the 3082R. I guess I'm just not a big turbo guy. I also needed to remember to build a car that I enjoy 100% of the time and not just at the drag strip. At the track, launching at 7K the 3082R was perfectly at home. Anywhere else and it lets me know it needs another .5-1.0 liter to get it moving. I'm also going to route the wastegate dump back into the exhaust.
The company Turbo Labs is pretty backed up, so I expect it to be 3-4 weeks before I get the turbo.
I'll sell the 3082R, without the turbine housing, after I get the GTX2871R in. I'm going to keep the turbine housing in case I want to try another 30xx in the future. I like to keep my options open. The GTX2871R will be the FIFTH turbo/variant I've had on this car, so I make absolutely no promises of sticking to it. :rofl:

The 58 trim GTX2871R has a compressor map nearly identical to the 3076R. Obviously the smaller turbine housing will ultimately restrict the full potential, but that's the trade off for better street fun.

This is the compressor map I came up with for the GTX2871R. The orange line is based on actual logged spool from my previous GT2871R, which I expect should be nearly identical. The orange line above 20psi is approximated.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee320/sporadicmach/Focus/Tuning/GTX2871R_2.0L.jpg