New date for King of Street - Oct 17

[CobraII]

Sunday, October 17... I hope the weather is nice and cool. I am pretty sure the cruise part is still on, but I'll try to get that confirmed and post. Obviously, for the cruise, exhaust and DOTs would be needed, unless you like meeting John Lawman. :D After the cruise, mufflers/exhaust can be dropped, tires changed, etc.

http://www.pittsburghracewaypark.com/images/file/kingofstreet_2010_2.pdf

[PaceFever79]

The flyer doesn't explain when and where the cruise will be?

And are all cars racing each other in one class?

[CobraII]

Agreed about the flyer and the cruise info - again, once I can confirm the info, one way or the other, I will post it here.

Yes, this is all one class, bracket racing.

[PaceFever79]

Will this be a true street type deal where all cars racing must cruise?

I like that, it keeps the highly modified cars honest! ;)

[biminiLX]

Subscribing, my car will be in PA by then, but it won't have the interior finished (no carpet or center console) so I doubt I can get inspection (PM me if you may know a solution there ;) ).
Either way, I still want to bring the car to race that day even in another class, hope to see you guys there.
-J

[somethingclever]

I don't see why carpet or center console would be a requirement for PA inspection.

[CobraII]

I got confirmation that yes, the cruise will be required. I like it too... I'd like to see the real street legal cars in this race. I'm not afraid to line up in a bracket race with anyone, but I know not everyone feels that way. And I'd like to see a really nice turnout, with a bunch of different cars. I don't have the cruise route yet - but think of this: mid October, in the area around the track, with the leaves starting to change, and a nice long parafe of hot rods. SWEET!

J, at this point, that I know of, KoS will be the only class (all bracket racing). I don't see why you would need the console or carpet either. Keep us posted if a solution hasn't arisen in 2-3 weeks. ;)

[Mater]

can u fuel up after the trip?

[CobraII]

Yes - this will be bracket racing. After the cruise, all is legal... slicks, open headers, fueling up, removing weight, etc.

[Mater]

wow hows that true street then?

[CobraII]

True Street got canceled - this will only be King of Street

[JOlbert]

True Street got canceled - this will only be King of Street

i was gonna come out for the first time to try True Street, but looks like i'll find something else to do. leave it to PRP to screw something else up

[PaceFever79]

<- previous True Street class winner :D

While not true street in the pure sense, it seems to have enough of the flavor
to be a good time. Although watching the "not really street cars" break down
because you can't work on them is my favorite part! lol

But tossing all the cars into one bracket race makes up for that a little.

[biminiLX]

Flexplate and starter had a disagreement this weekend picking it up from the shop, will have to wait until next year :( Unless anyone has a 28ox. AOD SFI flexplate laying around. Car will still be coming here this weekend for winter updates at Street Lethal!
I will plan on True Street here next year, hopefully PRP does a more TS style event a few times a year, it should be a big turnout. I don't care for the bracket style KOS personally.
-J

[pwtmxracing]

is this true no true street

[AdamantiumSilvr]

That's tuff the true street gettin cancelled! I was hearin about some sponsers backin it up.

[pwtmxracing]

what a bunch of crap as much as i try to like that place they always pull some bullshit like this

[AdamantiumSilvr]

I could actually do without the cruise. Me drivin their to and from round trip is like upwards of 60miles. So street cars driven in from that distance should be exept! I think it should be mandatory for trailor'd in street cars to drive the cruise thou!

[SK360]

I could actually do without the cruise. Me drivin their to and from round trip is like upwards of 60miles. So street cars driven in from that distance should be exept! I think it should be mandatory for trailor'd in street cars to drive the cruise thou!

What's to stop someone from trailering and leaving the trailer a mile away and claiming they drove?

[redneck racing]

http://www.nmcadigital.com/rules/ts.html

these rules seem to work good.

[biminiLX]

The cruise is part of the fun and as mentioned that idea above really can be bent easily.
It also is part of the competition as it proves the car can run the number 3 times in a row against cars doing the same with limited cool down.
That is much harder than driving it there and letting it get fully cool.


http://www.nmcadigital.com/rules/ts.html

these rules seem to work good.
Exactly, don't get while they just can't do this instead of brackets.
Even the slower cars get prizes in that format.
-J

[PaceFever79]

The cruise is part of the fun and as mentioned that idea above really can be bent easily.
It also is part of the competition as it proves the car can run the number 3 times in a row against cars doing the same with limited cool down.
That is much harder than driving it there and letting it get fully cool.


Exactly, don't get while they just can't do this instead of brackets.
Even the slower cars get prizes in that format.
-J

TS is still index racing, which is bracket racing, except instead of having
the brackets set in one second increments, you get to set your index by
way of your dial in. So bracket racing is better.

[biminiLX]

TS is still index racing, which is bracket racing, except instead of having
the brackets set in one second increments, you get to set your index by
way of your dial in. So bracket racing is better.
It is not true index racing, only the prizes are given out by index.
Its all out for 3 passes to me, way better than bracket racing.
-J

[PaceFever79]

It is not true index racing, only the prizes are given out by index.
Its all out for 3 passes to me, way better than bracket racing.
-J

That may be so in your head, but as far as the TS race goes, it is the average
of your 3 times, and the closest racer to the even second breakout time wins.
If you run an average of 12.99, too bad, you lose.

It's basically bracket racing. Except you don't get to choose your dial in time,
it gets chosen for you by the average time you run.

The only TS racers that care about their ET are the ones gunning for the
low ET of the day. I see no reason why PRP couldn't run bracket racing,
and also give a trophy for the low ET of the day.

As a matter of fact, I'd like that better than True Street! I'd much rather
run on my chosen dial in, rather than a set index.

PRP, are you paying attention here?

Mandatory cruise.
Racers may work on their cars one time before TT staging call.
Then consecutive elimination passes, no working on the cars allowed.
Bracket race champion, plus a trophy for low ET of the day.

[biminiLX]

That may be so in your head, but as far as the TS race goes, it is the average
of your 3 times, and the closest racer to the even second breakout time wins.
If you run an average of 12.99, too bad, you lose.

It's basically bracket racing. Except you don't get to choose your dial in time,
it gets chosen for you by the average time you run.

The only TS racers that care about their ET are the ones gunning for the
low ET of the day. I see no reason why PRP couldn't run bracket racing,
and also give a trophy for the low ET of the day.

As a matter of fact, I'd like that better than True Street! I'd much rather
run on my chosen dial in, rather than a set index.

PRP, are you paying attention here?

Mandatory cruise.
Racers may work on their cars one time before TT staging call.
Then consecutive elimination passes, no working on the cars allowed.
Bracket race champion, plus a trophy for low ET of the day.

That maybe so in your head, but what I said is also correct, it is NOT like regular index racing. We can agree to disagree.
We obviously have a different opinion as to what is better also.
I think the NMRA/NMCA TS rules are way more fun that a bracket race with street cars.
I'd also put a big bet on the fact that a NMRA/NMCA True Street style race for King of Street would draw more racers than a bracket race for street cars.
I'm glad PRP is doing something like this, I just hope they try the other way next year.
-J

[PaceFever79]

It's cool. I never understood the aversion to bracket racing.

If you run all out every time, it's a matter of picking your number, cutting a
good light, hitting shift points, and the car running its best.

It's not much different than TS, index racing, Pinks All Out, or any other form
of drag racing where there is a breakout time. Unless you sandbag? But that
can be done in any format. I'd rather pick my breakout time. That way I can
run all out and still have a chance to win a trophy too.

By the way, I won a True Street class trophy.

[AdamantiumSilvr]

...that I could see happening. It happens at the Flashlight Drags.

What's to stop someone from trailering and leaving the trailer a mile away and claiming they drove?

[biminiLX]

By the way, I won a True Street class trophy.
Very nice, Columbus?
I plan on winning one next year, hopefully the tall one :pinkthumb:
And I have no aversion to bracket racing, it's just that I prefer the True Street format and feel it would be a better race with a bigger turnout that way.
-J

[PaceFever79]

Very nice, Columbus?
I plan on winning one next year, hopefully the tall one :pinkthumb:
And I have no aversion to bracket racing, it's just that I prefer the True Street format and feel it would be a better race with a bigger turnout that way.
-J

NMCA True Street @ Maple Grove

I'd love to see you take a run at the top dog trophy!

Those are some pretty sick machines :thmbsup:

[AdamantiumSilvr]

The flier's up on the PRP site for this, n it doesn't say anything about a cruise, coool!!

[CobraII]

I'm trying to nail down what exactly the plan is for the day. I've been told True Street, no True Street, cruise, no cruise, etc.

King of Street came about as an answer to some of the box/no box races PRP had a few years ago. This was a way to have a race for street cars, and not have to go against all out race cars. Personally, I like the cruise, even though I'm driving 30 miles to the track. I think it's a good way of weeding out all out race cars that may narrowly fit the street legal definition, and leaving the bracket race to true street cars.

[pwtmxracing]

i hope someone at prp figures out what the hell thay are doing with the true street race....

[orange 500]

If its true street style, count me in! Id like to see more of these events in our area.

[redneck racing]

If its true street style, count me in! Id like to see more of these events in our area.


X2 otherwise i will sit in a tree and count chipmunks. Not a fan of bracket racing.

[Mater]

X2 otherwise i will sit in a tree and count chipmunks. Not a fan of bracket racing.

I Think u would be getting the head start,I' be setting @ the tree counting chipmunks!:pepper:

[Martin0660]

I'm trying to nail down what exactly the plan is for the day. I've been told True Street, no True Street, cruise, no cruise, etc.

It seems nailed down, or at least this is what is posted on the web site ...

King of Street has been rescheduled to Sunday, October 17. This race will be run in its traditional format, bracket racing, slicks and open headers allowed. There will be no True Street, nor will there be a cruise prior to the race.

[MBH]

sounds like they should change the name to 'king of the track' if there is nothing street about it...

[biminiLX]

BS I expected, but disappointing, maybe next year
-J

[redneck racing]

I Think u would be getting the head start,I' be setting @ the tree counting chipmunks!:pepper:
Your probably right, if i were you i would just save the C-16 and take the loss like a man!!

[CobraII]

I understand you guys being disappointed the True Street not happening. I hope it can happen next year for you.

I also understand if bracket racing isn't your thing. But, it is still a fun race, and a lot of cool cars come out for it. I would have preferred the cruise be a part of it, to eliminate some "technically street legal" cars, and to force cars to run DOTs and exhaust, then come back to the track and change tires, drop the pipes, etc. It's a good, fun race.

[pwtmxracing]

if i go i will b racing my grand am not my mustang prp could care less about street cars the only reason they are having it is cause of there bracket racers ...

[redneck racing]

Slicks aren't a big deal to me i don't run them but whatever, BUT the reason i run street events is so i don't have to hear the 11-12 second race cars with no mufflers. i have a factory stereo and can't hear the radio when i race them.

[ModularMike]

Slicks aren't a big deal to me i don't run them but whatever, BUT the reason i run street events is so i don't have to hear the 11-12 second race cars with no mufflers. i have a factory stereo and can't hear the radio when i race them.
LOL yeah those bracket cars are gay. I love those 12 second cars that you can hear 5 miles away.. put some damn mufflers on it. They aren't restricting your 300hp small block.

[biminiLX]

So........bracket race, slicks, open headers, no cruise, no mention of required registration/insurance/inspection.........how is this a 'street' race?
Super FAIL by PRP here.
Was going to at least come spectate if it was a True Street style race, now I'll find something better to do.
-J

[cwh19]

So........bracket race, slicks, open headers, no cruise, no mention of required registration/insurance/inspection.........how is this a 'street' race?
Super FAIL by PRP here.
Was going to at least come spectate if it was a True Street style race, now I'll find something better to do.
-J


x2 for sure. I was looking forward to it but Id rather just sit home now.

[PaceFever79]

Kind of hard to believe that PRP could make such an epic fail.

There were easy ways to make this race interesting without being sanctioned.

Now you have to fire the management.

[Mater]

sounds like they should change the name to 'king of the track' if there is nothing street about it...
x2

Your probably right, if i were you i would just save the C-16 and take the loss like a man!!
:rotflol:dont run c-16

BS I expected, but disappointing, maybe next year
-J
would be nice

Kind of hard to believe that PRP could make such an epic fail.

There were easy ways to make this race interesting without being sanctioned.

Now you have to fire the management.

true

[Balaska347]

I agree that PRP definitely droppped the ball on this one. I would have like to see what kind of turn out it would have had for the true street event atleast. I personally think that it would have flopped anyway if it would have happened because MOST, not all of the guys, on here and others would say they want the event to happen but when the day comes they have a reason they cant bring the car but might come to watch. Watching doesn't really support the event because without a good car count it would never happen again anyway. The KOS bracket race is on the schedule every year because people come out and race to support it.

As for the 12-13 sec bracket racers with open headers, there are very few of these anymore on a regular race day and for the KOS there might be a hand full out of 80 cars. Im a bracket racer that runs mufflers in modified class which most of those car run open headers and yeah I have a CD player I just turn the volume up. If your really worried about open header cars stick to the car cruises.

[ocrowner]

they should call this race KING OF BRACKET RACING!

[biminiLX]

I personally think that it would have flopped anyway if it would have happened because MOST, not all of the guys, on here and others would say they want the event to happen but when the day comes they have a reason they cant bring the car but might come to watch. Watching doesn't really support the event because without a good car count it would never happen again anyway. The KOS bracket race is on the schedule every year because people come out and race to support it.
I honestly was going to consider throwing in a new flexplate and starter and making this my last race of the year if it was a real True Street event. Already had that plan in place with my brother who will be here that weekend.
I was going to bring my Contour SVT for its first passes (to see what it could do in good weather) if it was a True Street event, just to support PRP for trying a True Street event.
You're obviously a supporter of PRP and while you said they dropped the ball you then go on to basically say the opposite. So make up your mind.
The KOS is nothing more than a regular bracket race as mentioned above, so I can see why you'd like it.
-J

[83dropboy]

I can't wait to go watch this and see a 16 second Sentra named 'King of Street'....

They should at least have some kind of quickest ET prize.

I am just waiting for them to announce this will be an 1/8 mile race.....

[CobraII]

If you check the flyer on the PRP site, the rules are stated:
Car or bike must be state inspected
Car or bike must have current registration
No electronics (delay box), 2 step, or transbrake

This is still a good race, pays $800 to win, $300 runner up, semis $100, round money $20 starting with a 3rd round win.

It's not a "regular bracket race" - it's a bracket race aimed at street cars. I'd like to see tweaks to it too, like requiring DOTs and mufflers, but that won't stop me from racing. If a Sentra has the skill to cut a light and drive the stripe, so be it. If you don't want that to happen, get in your car and try to beat him/her.

[Sonic03snake]

If you check the flyer on the PRP site, the rules are stated:
Car or bike must be state inspected
Car or bike must have current registration
No electronics (delay box), 2 step, or transbrake

This is still a good race, pays $800 to win, $300 runner up, semis $100, round money $20 starting with a 3rd round win.

It's not a "regular bracket race" - it's a bracket race aimed at street cars. I'd like to see tweaks to it too, like requiring DOTs and mufflers, but that won't stop me from racing. If a Sentra has the skill to cut a light and drive the stripe, so be it. If you don't want that to happen, get in your car and try to beat him/her.

The problem with the KOTS race is it is a bracket race that is usually populated with the "Bracket Racer" regulars and 99 % of the potential street car people have no interest in seing who they can send home due to cutting a better light and dialing their car. Its not a matter of skill, it just doesn't appeal to most. Im not putting down the Bracket Racers, just stating there is a huge oppertunity to bring alot more people to the track if other options are available. Look how well the FLD's do.

[PaceFever79]

A few things worth mentioning.

1) They can't call it True Street (c), but it could have many attributes of true street,
and even a few improvements thrown in. Like making some effort to race cars that
are in the same 1 second brackets. In True Street you often end up racing your 13
second muscle car heads up with a sub ten second race car. That can be not so fun
when a 9 second car wipes out in front of you. I know!

2) You could run the KOS class along with the regular bracket classes the same way
that NMCA and NMRA do it at most national events. So it really doesn't matter how
many cars are entered in KOS race because the bracket classes will pay their usual
amount of revenue just like any other bracket race day.

3) You set a higher entry fee for KOS, just like True Street does! (I believe it is $75?),
that way you can award sweet purses for KOS and draw more racers. Or at least draw
a better crop of KOS racers. Bargain racers can enter the regular bracket races for the
regular bracket race entry fee and cracker jack prize.

This isn't rocket science, just good event planning and marketing!

PRP, contact me if you're looking for a real manager!

[Sonic03snake]

Check the link below, look how much stuff goes on and how many days they are open. They are not doing this for their health, they are using the track as much as possible and probably making decent money.

http://atcoraceway.com/schedule.php

[PaceFever79]

Lou, in all fairness, the NJ/Philly market is way bigger than Pittsburgh.
That said, note the variety of events run at Atco?

PRP is now one of the few remaining real tracks in the PA tristate area.
So they do have a large geographic area to draw from.

Promoting good events doesn't take money so much as good marketing.
Thus they maid an unbelievable blunder with the KOS.

It's not the bacon that sells, it's the sizzle!

[Mater]

How about the cars with classic plates that they race every week end as their drag car!:rolleyes:

[Balaska347]

I honestly was going to consider throwing in a new flexplate and starter and making this my last race of the year if it was a real True Street event. Already had that plan in place with my brother who will be here that weekend.
I was going to bring my Contour SVT for its first passes (to see what it could do in good weather) if it was a True Street event, just to support PRP for trying a True Street event.
You're obviously a supporter of PRP and while you said they dropped the ball you then go on to basically say the opposite. So make up your mind.
The KOS is nothing more than a regular bracket race as mentioned above, so I can see why you'd like it.
-J

My post wasn't directed at you it was just a statement. Im going to try and make my self more clear here. I do believe that PRP droppped the ball because they made the plans to runs this race and then backed out. I think that looks bad for the track. As for the true street format, I dont think you can draw enough people in the area to actually participate to make it worth opening the track. And people aren't going to travel for a few hundred bucks. I have a car that runs 10.90-11.0 all day long and can drive it anywhere. Do I have any interest in running true street? No, what am I gonna say Im the king of the true street 11.0 sec bracket and won $250. No Im gonna run the bracket race and win $800 and you can call me what ever you want lol. Do I have any interest in watching a true street event? No its just as boring as bracket racing, actually to me its worst.

Yes I support PRP because if we dont it will be the next Quaker city. Do I always agree with PRP, no. Im not against you guys I just dont always agree with you.

[Balaska347]

PRP, contact me if you're looking for a real manager!

Seriously if you think you can do it contact them. They are always looking and I would like to see some things changed too.

[Sonic03snake]

I agree but there are a lot of cars sitting in garages around here that do not come to the track because they do not enjoy the Bracket thing. If there were more things geared towards real truestreet format and there was a decent pay out people would come from a few hours away to play.:goodidea:


Lou, in all fairness, the NJ/Philly market is way bigger than Pittsburgh.
That said, note the variety of events run at Atco?

PRP is now one of the few remaining real tracks in the PA tristate area.
So they do have a large geographic area to draw from.

Promoting good events doesn't take money so much as good marketing.
Thus they maid an unbelievable blunder with the KOS.

It's not the bacon that sells, it's the sizzle!

[Mater]

I agree but there are a lot of cars sitting in garages around here that do not come to the track because they do not enjoy the Bracket thing. If there were more things geared towards real truestreet format and there was a decent pay out people would come from a few hours away to play.:goodidea:
:goodidea::goodidea:
TNT nights would be way better with out a gamblers race also,ppl dont go for that reson!

[pwtmxracing]

they should call this race KING OF BRACKET RACING!
lol thats the best one i have heard in a while :laughing:

[AdamantiumSilvr]

I think everybody needs to get their rides out for this to have fun n come race regardless!! Same thing with the FLD's, everybody hates but where u at??? To many vagiess i think, honestly!! Why have all this ching n horsepower into ur ride if u don't race, period!! I think their's a whole lot of talk and not alot walk on most parts of peeps around here!!!

[mustang50lx]

All the True street events I've seen are mixed in with other racing. I think it would be a good addition to the Night of fire or Memorial day. NMRA charges $85.00 for True street. They had over 100 cars in Bowling green. I admit PRP probably won't get that number, but if they get half that it's money they didn't have.

I also think they should try a new racer day. A day when regular racers don't race and maybe even help the new guys. It's discouraging to get beat your first day and may keep you from coming back. FYI It's also discouraging to your ass handed to you week after week but some of us have adapted.:)

[somethingclever]

I see the "money card" pulled often to back PRP's event choices.


If PRP owners want the track to GROW and bring in new racers, then they need to have a NEW style of events.

[reklaw]

The problem with the KOTS race is it is a bracket race that is usually populated with the "Bracket Racer" regulars and 99 % of the potential street car people have no interest in seing who they can send home due to cutting a better light and dialing their car. Its not a matter of skill, it just doesn't appeal to most. Im not putting down the Bracket Racers, just stating there is a huge oppertunity to bring alot more people to the track if other options are available. Look how well the FLD's do.
We go down to a fair amount of TNT at PRP, but I have no interest in bracket racing. I totally agree with you. If it were a different format we would be there! I have a street car that we take to the track for fun, not a track car that I drive once in a while. Would love to see the cruise, no slicks and no open headers, but I guess I'll keep wishing.

[biminiLX]

My post wasn't directed at you it was just a statement. Im going to try and make my self more clear here. I do believe that PRP droppped the ball because they made the plans to runs this race and then backed out. I think that looks bad for the track. As for the true street format, I dont think you can draw enough people in the area to actually participate to make it worth opening the track. And people aren't going to travel for a few hundred bucks. I have a car that runs 10.90-11.0 all day long and can drive it anywhere. Do I have any interest in running true street? No, what am I gonna say Im the king of the true street 11.0 sec bracket and won $250. No Im gonna run the bracket race and win $800 and you can call me what ever you want lol. Do I have any interest in watching a true street event? No its just as boring as bracket racing, actually to me its worst.

Yes I support PRP because if we dont it will be the next Quaker city. Do I always agree with PRP, no. Im not against you guys I just dont always agree with you.
Maybe or maybe not directed at me, seeing as though I've been very vocal on this topis and already said the car was down and that I'd might just watch.
Not even thinking you were directing it at me at first, but I was just stating how I WOULD have went out of my way IF they committed to the True Street style event originally planned. You have no idea how far I will go to make a race with my car, I was under it at 4am finishing a gear swap and loading it at 6am this year just to make test passes. Nothing like a 150mph top end pull to make you forget about not sleeping all night :sticktonge:
Hell, I was still going to bring my slow ass DD just to support the race if PRP didn't have their head up their ass.
I'm done being PC, you guys (Balaska, Cobra II, Pacecar) are full of shit if you think a real True Street event wouldn't be a hit if it were marketed even half assed. You guys are bracket racers (and very good, so seriously real props there) and want to support that. Fine, but this event will 100% out draw a fake 'street' POS bracket race like this, and there are MANY others like me who would prefer a TS race. Just look at NMRA/NMCA TS turnout, almost 300 cars in Florida and BG for TS.
How much to sponsor a race like that next year?
Shit, I may just do it myself next year, pretty sure I could make a few bucks doing it too.
*Disclaimer: Too many Yeunglings and a shitty Pens loss may have contributed to this thread.
-J

[ModularMike]

Maybe or maybe not directed at me, seeing as though I've been very vocal on this topis and already said the car was down and that I'd might just watch.
Not even thinking you were directing it at me at first, but I was just stating how I WOULD have went out of my way IF they committed to the True Street style event originally planned. You have no idea how far I will go to make a race with my car, I was under it at 4am finishing a gear swap and loading it at 6am this year just to make test passes. Nothing like a 150mph top end pull to make you forget about not sleeping all night :sticktonge:
Hell, I was still going to bring my slow ass DD just to support the race if PRP didn't have their head up their ass.
I'm done being PC, you guys (Balaska, Cobra II, Pacecar) are full of shit if you think a real True Street event wouldn't be a hit if it were marketed even half assed. You guys are bracket racers (and very good, so seriously real props there) and want to support that. Fine, but this event will 100% out draw a fake 'street' POS bracket race like this, and there are MANY others like me who would prefer a TS race. Just look at NMRA/NMCA TS turnout, almost 300 cars in Florida and BG for TS.
How much to sponsor a race like that next year?
Shit, I may just do it myself next year, pretty sure I could make a few bucks doing it too.
*Disclaimer: Too many Yeunglings and a shitty Pens loss may have contributed to this thread.
-J
Ha! But I agree. I would have ran the T/S race. Not everyone lives for bracket racing..

[biminiLX]

Jerry Macquire voice: "I'm running TS, whose commin with me?"
-J

[Balaska347]

:goodidea::goodidea:
TNT nights would be way better with out a gamblers race also,ppl dont go for that reson!

Well Greg Miller gave you what you wanted this year and you didnt even notice. There is only one gamblers race per month this year during TNT. So 75% of TNT this year were without gamblers race and this was because believe it or not CobraII and myself for being advocates for you guys. But guess what, the car counts didnt get any better without a gamblers race scheduled. It was actually better with it because you had the others cars that come for the gamblers. You know what else happened this year, everyone got plenty of runs. Most nights people left before it was over because they had ran enough. Also the track was preped the same for all TNT's as a raceday. All these changes that people on here wanted and got but you dont see anyone mentioning that on here. They probably didnt notice...

[Balaska347]

Maybe or maybe not directed at me, seeing as though I've been very vocal on this topis and already said the car was down and that I'd might just watch.
Not even thinking you were directing it at me at first, but I was just stating how I WOULD have went out of my way IF they committed to the True Street style event originally planned. You have no idea how far I will go to make a race with my car, I was under it at 4am finishing a gear swap and loading it at 6am this year just to make test passes. Nothing like a 150mph top end pull to make you forget about not sleeping all night :sticktonge:
Hell, I was still going to bring my slow ass DD just to support the race if PRP didn't have their head up their ass.
I'm done being PC, you guys (Balaska, Cobra II, Pacecar) are full of shit if you think a real True Street event wouldn't be a hit if it were marketed even half assed. You guys are bracket racers (and very good, so seriously real props there) and want to support that. Fine, but this event will 100% out draw a fake 'street' POS bracket race like this, and there are MANY others like me who would prefer a TS race. Just look at NMRA/NMCA TS turnout, almost 300 cars in Florida and BG for TS.
How much to sponsor a race like that next year?
Shit, I may just do it myself next year, pretty sure I could make a few bucks doing it too.
*Disclaimer: Too many Yeunglings and a shitty Pens loss may have contributed to this thread.
-J

Well there is only one way to find out and it doesn't look like it is happening this year. And remember one other thing, the TS at the NMRA/NMCA get good turn outs to because of the event as a whole. People want to attend those events anyway and most can fit that class.
I would say if PRP held the event they would be lucky to get 40 cars which wouldnt even pay for the paper to print the time slips. I am a bracket racer but love any kind of racing and even though I race my car every week its just as much af a street car as anyone elses on here. You dont need a racecar to bracket race thats the point of it. CobraII, Glenn, and I aren't against you guys we just dont always agree with some of the point of views. Trust me the good points that you guys make we do pass it along. We are all car guys

[biminiLX]

Well there is only one way to find out and it doesn't look like it is happening this year. And remember one other thing, the TS at the NMRA/NMCA get good turn outs to because of the event as a whole. People want to attend those events anyway and most can fit that class.
I would say if PRP held the event they would be lucky to get 40 cars which wouldnt even pay for the paper to print the time slips. I am a bracket racer but love any kind of racing and even though I race my car every week its just as much af a street car as anyone elses on here. You dont need a racecar to bracket race thats the point of it. CobraII, Glenn, and I aren't against you guys we just dont always agree with some of the point of views. Trust me the good points that you guys make we do pass it along. We are all car guys
Yeah, but this is the attitude that just doesn't make sense.
PRP needs to try new things and actually market it and I'd bet the turn-out would be good.
There are MANY TS racers that show up the the NMRA/NMCA just for that class and no other reason, trust me, I've talked to them.
-J

[PaceFever79]

The TS races I've participated in were a lot of fun. I always thought a car show would be
a nice addition to TS cruise and races. After all, these are street cars, how they look and
how well they're maintained means as much as how they run?

I don't really care so much for tnt events. I can see it being useful for racers to dial in
their cars, but after a few three runs it gets kind of boring for me. I like to have some
sort of competition. So I usually end up bracket racing.

If PRP ran TS events on bracket racing days, I'd go to every one!

I think there's lots of car guys bored with "cruise nights"

I think it could be popular if marketed right.

[bgblockelcamino]

just went to lsx shootout over teh weekend. ran true street there. we had 108 cars in just lsx class. it is def a lot of fun to run. pretty wild seeing 7-8sec street cars driving 30 miles then making multiple passes.

[Balaska347]

This is what Im trying to say. TS does well during these bigger events such as Fun ford and LSx but if you take the rest of the event away and all the big sponsors that sponsor these weekend events and I think they will suffer greatly. Again Im speaking IMO not PRP.

[PaceFever79]

It doesn't matter how many cars enter KOS if it's during a bracket race.
You could even enter/race BOTH classes in one day if you want.

9am to 12:30pm - Bracket Race practice
11am to 12:30pm - KOS parade cruise
1pm to 2pm - KOS hot lap competition (3 consecutive runs)
3pm to 5pm - KOS car show (voting by racers/fans)
2pm to close - Bracket race eliminations

[Sonic03snake]

The true street format would be too much work to have more than once or twice a year. What is hot and would be very easy to incorporate into a race day would be index racing. run 2-3 different indexes and it would be golden.:goodidea:

[PaceFever79]

Why think small?

Uh yeah, this is Pittsburgh!

[PaceFever79]

I agree this would only work 3-4 events per year.

Your target "car guy" doesn't do more than 3-4 events per year.

But I think these could be successful local events if they're promoted properly.

[biminiLX]

Yes, this would only work a few times per year.
The index racing thing is good too, some other tracks get good turnouts for those, I think people like to leave heads up.
PRP could look at doing a once a month race like Milan's first friday of the month race or Norwalks door warz, both great events.
-J

[PaceFever79]

Heads up on a Pro tree!

[charcoal03gt]

Does anyone know where th cruise is starting and if it is bracket racing based on consistency or are they looking for the fastest car out there

[CobraII]

There will be no cruise for the King of Street race, just come in, pay the entry fee, and race.

It is a bracket race, not heads up or index, so each racer will set their own dial in.

Cars/trucks/bikes must be inspected and registered. Slicks are ok (must have driveshaft loop) as are open headers. 2 time trial sessions, then eliminations.

[AdamantiumSilvr]

A bunch of us are meetin between 9-10amish a-00' midnight blue vette, burnt orange 80's Trans am, 2010 Stang, and possibly a few others too. Lemme me know if your in our area and want to meet up and roll out with us!

[Martin0660]

Well ... I guess i'm out for this one now. POS header cracked again and I'm not going to race the truck for this one (although it does reasonably well ;) )

[CobraII]

Good deal Brent, see you at the track. Any of those guys need help, stop down.

Sorry to hear that Bob. I lost traclk of when you were running when I was in eliminations. Run the truck!!! :D

[biminiLX]

So who ended up winning this thing?
How was the turnout?
-J

[Balaska347]

Rich Penn, a 99 T/A wS6 STREET CAR dot tires and full exhaust runs 11's. There was only one car there that I thought shouldn't have been and it even had mufflers on. The turn out was good I thought about 80-90 cars but from what I heard the track about broke even so I dont expect to see any type of street race next year TS or KOS.

[biminiLX]

Rich Penn, a 99 T/A wS6 STREET CAR dot tires and full exhaust runs 11's. There was only one car there that I thought shouldn't have been and it even had mufflers on. The turn out was good I thought about 80-90 cars but from what I heard the track about broke even so I dont expect to see any type of street race next year TS or KOS.
Not that I expected you to say any different :awsome:
but how did they not break even with that turnout? doesn't make sense to me.
-J

[AdamantiumSilvr]

...lost 1st round runnin a 13.90 on a 13.86 dial in, bought back in chased down and passed a 14.2 dialed 80s camaro at the 1000' marker and lifted right before the stripe and lost again! Booy was I PO'd!!!! I did happen to run my second 13.7 and 2nd fasted pass ever thou in the first time trial!
But as for the turnout, tons of slick, open header, points regulars racin their so call street cars thou! Kinda suck't cause the new comers and people that came that never bracket race'd before pretty much never had a chance.
The dude that won races weekly their in PRP points, black Trans Am consistant as all heLL. I alwayz thought his car has a weird sound to it too. He also has won a good bit of PRP Class races too.

[Balaska347]

Not that I expected you to say any different :awsome:
but how did they not break even with that turnout? doesn't make sense to me.
-J

Probably because you dont understand what it cost to open the track along with all the other "know it alls". :awsome:

So here is a quick run down thats not 100% accurate but is close.

80 cars X 30 entry = $2400
50 spectaters (thats generous) X $5 = $250
30 re-entries X 15 = $450
so you're at +$3100

Now cost to open track:

-$1200 right off the bat for insurance just to open the gate
-$50 EMS
-$400 [10 employees X $40 days wage (conservative)]
-$800 winner
-$300 r/u
-$150 round money
-$100 gas, vht, supplies and utilities

total -$3000

+3100 - 3000 = +$100

[biminiLX]

Haha, I might not know it all, but I knew enough to prevent this:
But as for the turnout, tons of slick, open header, points regulars racin their so call street cars thou! Kinda suck't cause the new comers and people that came that never bracket race'd before pretty much never had a chance.
The dude that won races weekly their in PRP points, black Trans Am consistant as all heLL. I alwayz thought his car has a weird sound to it too. He also has won a good bit of PRP Class races too.
and call this POS event what it was.
I also knew enough to predict that your car would only run close to what is expected from the rwhp number you had, not that rediculous rwtq number you had. :laughing:
If I take a job in the area next year, I think I might just put together a real TS race and probably make money doing it. :twothumbsup:
-"know it all" J

[Balaska347]

Haha, I might not know it all, but I knew enough to prevent this:
and call this POS event what it was.
I also knew enough to predict that your car would only run close to what is expected from the rwhp number you had, not that rediculous rwtq number you had. :laughing:
If I take a job in the area next year, I think I might just put together a real TS race and probably make money doing it. :twothumbsup:
-"know it all" J

The car ran a little slower then I thought. I predicted 10.80's but the car was built to run atleast 10.90's to fit a specific IHRA class. Its not like I predicted 500 rwhp and a 10.00 NA combo and came out and ran 11.40 :bananabang: :rofl:. I said whether the dyno numbers where accurate or not the car would run in the 10's. I dont stroke myself to dyno numbers and bench race like alot of the garage queens on here that figure out what their car runs with an equation :laughing:. When people ask me what kind of numbers the car makes I say 215/300 thats what ford said a 89 mustang makes not bad for a 10.90 car with a AOD.

As for the TS race the key word was "probably." Im not gonna worry about it because it will never happen :awsome:

[AdamantiumSilvr]

Pretty crazy puttin it into perspective with those ball park #'ers Mikey!
But I think a different format would workout if the right group of people sat down and actually talked things out in a manner that helpt benefit everyone in the Drag Racing Community from all aspects of it, plus keepin it fun!
Like Regular Racer's and open header slick cars should be its own class, do doubt. And then people who aren't King Of Brackets that are more street related and don't know crap about bracket racing or index racing into say the Real True Street.

[Balaska347]

Pretty crazy puttin it into perspective with those ball park #'ers Mikey!
But I think a different format would workout if the right group of people sat down and actually talked things out in a manner that helpt benefit everyone in the Drag Racing Community from all aspects of it, plus keepin it fun!
Like Regular Racer's and open header slick cars should be its own class, do doubt. And then people who aren't King Of Brackets that are more street related and don't know crap about bracket racing or index racing into say the Real True Street.

Brent I understand what you are saying about feeling like you dont have a chance. I do think they should have a beginners bracket class during the TNT's. I was in that position along with a the other regular racers at some point. You have to start somewhere. When I started I raced every week for almost a full year before I got 1 round win not a class win. I just kept doing things to get better and I enjoy the competition of bracket racing and the chance to win more money to put back in to the car. There is a trophy class on the regular race days for beginners.

Anyway this is about the 5-6 year that the KOS has been ran. This race was never intended to be anything like a TS event. It was started because PRP had a race for cars that ran 11.99 and faster only which was a bracket race for anyone including the regulars. Well at the time I ran street class (an IHRA class that allows slicks and open headers) which you couldn't run faster then 12.00. So basically, everyone that ran street class didn't fit into this race PRP was holding. Some others and I complained and rallied for PRP to hold a race for only cars that fit into the street class which was anything 12.00 and slower allowing open headers and slicks you didnt even need to be street legal. They called it KOS because it was for the street class racers. It had nothing to do with true street cars, slicks, open headers etc. Every year things were changed to try and make more people happy but knowning you will never make everyone happy I can care less if they ever do it again.

[cwh19]

If it were actually a true street style event, I alone know that about 8-10 of my friends would have been there. I planned on going too. It would just be cool to see something like.

I understand what it costs to run something like this though and the uncertainty of knowing whether or not people would actually show up.

[Mater]

Probably because you dont understand what it cost to open the track along with all the other "know it alls". :awsome:

So here is a quick run down thats not 100% accurate but is close.

80 cars X 30 entry = $2400
50 spectaters (thats generous) X $5 = $250
30 re-entries X 15 = $450
so you're at +$3100

Now cost to open track:

-$1200 right off the bat for insurance just to open the gate
-$50 EMS
-$400 [10 employees X $40 days wage (conservative)]
-$800 winner
-$300 r/u
-$150 round money
-$100 gas, vht, supplies and utilities

total -$3000

+3100 - 3000 = +$100

The food stand dont help the track make money?

[SK360]

The food stand dont help the track make money?

I don't see how it wouldn't with the redic prices for crap food. lol.

+1 on a REAL true street event with cruise and all.

[Balaska347]

The food stand dont help the track make money?

I was going to add this with the original post because I knew someone would bring it up. Yes, the food stand usually makes money on a regular race day when there are close too 300 cars and the racers bring their families. On this day alone, I dont think they made anything of value. In fact they were so slow they closed early because it wasn't worth paying the employees and utilities to stay open. I dont know the food stand numbers so I left it out of the first post. I could almost bet they didnt make much if not lost money. #1 There was only about 15-20min between rounds so there wasn't even enough time to think about eating. #2 they were only open for a short time, this isn't an all day event. #3 the food that was wasted, #4 employees and utilities (its not cheap to power up deep friers and hot lamps). I would be safe to say they sold no more then $200 worth of food. $200 - the cost of the food - waste - ect. you get the picture.

So the answer to your question I would say is NO and if it is YES it not enough to even consider...

[Balaska347]

I don't see how it wouldn't with the redic prices for crap food. lol.

+1 on a REAL true street event with cruise and all.

+2 for me I would like to see this event as long as its not me putting my neck out to set it up. This is the hardest event to setup. You know they did have it all mapped out but you know what would have happened? The same old whiners would have cried and complained about the roads that they picked or anything else that didnt suit them. Is there any track in the north east that holds this event alone, meaning without something like fun ford or LSX shootout?

+1 for no taxes, free and the best health care in the world, someone to wipe my ass and massage my back, and have my dinner on the table when I get home from work

+1 for a REAL true street event with no DR, ET street, QTP (just because they are DOT doesn't mean they pass inspection) or aftermarket exhaust because I wanna hear my own car. Street tires only with factory CATS and mufflers. Who's in...

[AdamantiumSilvr]

...just doesn't do it for me anymore, they're kinda boring. Maybe havin a beginner brackets at'em would help get more racers at bracket events. But honestly it really don't make sense to beat up your car to just chase that best time over and over n over again. I understand stand if u never ran before and wanted see what your car did maybe after some mods, or u got a new combo with tons of horsepower and your tryin to get it runnin right. But as of lately I like to see reeeal competitive racing happening!
Between me n my bro playin Ice Hockey and my Dad playin Baseball for years we got dozons upon dozons of trophy's rottin in storage. They are pretty much worthless. Um lookin to get some :pinkthumb:muuulaa!!!

[PaceFever79]

PRP is a loser because they have a poor team. It's really that simple. I worked on the
staff for many driving school / track events so I know a little about how to design and
promote a successful event. Drag racing is really no different.

[SAC81]

I've been pretty happy with PRP this year. I had lots of complaints last year, but the few times I made it out to the track this year I was pretty happy.

[PaceFever79]

I've been pretty happy with PRP this year. I had lots of complaints last year, but the few times I made it out to the track this year I was pretty happy.

Just to be clear, I'm not knocking how they run their events.

My comment was about how they design and promote them.

[biminiLX]

Yeah I'm done with this thread, no more posts from me on this topic, I think its clear to see Balaska's opinion/agenda.
Just to be clear, I'm not knocking how they run their events.

My comment was about how they design and promote them.
I am serious about helping set-up one next year, hopefully you could help, I'll contact you later.
TS event w/ cruise and payouts just like NMRA/NMCA, car show, burnout contest, grudge race etc. should not be hard to promote and make money on.
-J

[Balaska347]

PRP is a loser because they have a poor team. It's really that simple. I worked on the
staff for many driving school / track events so I know a little about how to design and
promote a successful event. Drag racing is really no different.

I agree to an extent with this comment. One problem is there really is no team. Greg Miller was given the track manager position for this past year and that pretty much is the team. Other employees consists of some old racers and Wyotech kids that get minimum wage and only a few have ever been around a drag strip in their life. Greg can't be manager, PR, HR, promoter and operator and do the best to his ability. I watched this guy work his butt off all year and struggle and kill himself and begged for more help because he knows he needs it but not get it. So the problem really is PRP doesn't want to pay the money for a winning team. Sort of like the pirates. Why spend more money when they are making enough. Do I agree with PRP? NO! I was serious when I said to apply for a position at PRP. I would like to see Greg get some help with the business end. That is if he doesn't throw in the towel because he can't take much more. This is why I get so touchy when people make ridiculous comments.

[Balaska347]

...just doesn't do it for me anymore, they're kinda boring. Maybe havin a beginner brackets at'em would help get more racers at bracket events. But honestly it really don't make sense to beat up your car to just chase that best time over and over n over again. I understand stand if u never ran before and wanted see what your car did maybe after some mods, or u got a new combo with tons of horsepower and your tryin to get it runnin right. But as of lately I like to see reeeal competitive racing happening!
Between me n my bro playin Ice Hockey and my Dad playin Baseball for years we got dozons upon dozons of trophy's rottin in storage. They are pretty much worthless. Um lookin to get some :pinkthumb:muuulaa!!!

...I really think you will become hooked with bracket racing when you get the hang of it. It has to be one of the most competitive motorsports out there that you dont need to be rich to compete in. Plus like you said, when you start winning cash it makes it that much better because you can put it back into the car. You are already more advanced then I was when I started.

[PaceFever79]

I agree to an extent with this comment. One problem is there really is no team. Greg Miller was given the track manager position for this past year and that pretty much is the team. Other employees consists of some old racers and Wyotech kids that get minimum wage and only a few have ever been around a drag strip in their life. Greg can't be manager, PR, HR, promoter and operator and do the best to his ability. I watched this guy work his butt off all year and struggle and kill himself and begged for more help because he knows he needs it but not get it. So the problem really is PRP doesn't want to pay the money for a winning team. Sort of like the pirates. Why spend more money when they are making enough. Do I agree with PRP? NO! I was serious when I said to apply for a position at PRP. I would like to see Greg get some help with the business end. That is if he doesn't throw in the towel because he can't take much more. This is why I get so touchy when people make ridiculous comments.

Just a quick reply.... (I'm at work)

The way you build a team is by recruiting enthusiast / volunteers.

They attend all the planning meetings, contribute ideas, and the manager
delegates various tasks to each of them. They then go out to all the clubs
and message forums and do grass roots promoting of the event. In return
they get free entry to the event and the pride that comes with being part
of a team and producing a fun/successful event.

Obviously there is burnout, but once you get it rolling, you'd be surprised
how many new and returning volunteers you get.

[AdamantiumSilvr]

...been hooked!:yes: I was totally hooked when I was like 5 goin twice a year to NHRA events, and goin to see my dad's buddy Mark Claypool and his crew bracket race their Plymouth Arrow and Dodge Dart haha! Watchin as a kid and then learning to do it, an actually race as an adult are two differents deals, lol!
Gregs a great guy thou! I'm pretty sure its pretty tuff tryin ta manage a drag strip. I give him alot of credit and have seen tons of major overall improvment on the track in the past decade!:goodidea:

...I really think you will become hooked with bracket racing when you get the hang of it. It has to be one of the most competitive motorsports out there that you dont need to be rich to compete in. Plus like you said, when you start winning cash it makes it that much better because you can put it back into the car. You are already more advanced then I was when I started.

[Balaska347]

Just a quick reply.... (I'm at work)

The way you build a team is by recruiting enthusiast / volunteers.

They attend all the planning meetings, contribute ideas, and the manager
delegates various tasks to each of them. They then go out to all the clubs
and message forums and do grass roots promoting of the event. In return
they get free entry to the event and the pride that comes with being part
of a team and producing a fun/successful event.

Obviously there is burnout, but once you get it rolling, you'd be surprised
how many new and returning volunteers you get.

That is a good idea and they all ready do have a few volunteers that do something like that. That would and does help with promoting certain event but they still need to hire and pay professionals for the business end. There is a lot of work on that end and one man just can't do it himself.

[PaceFever79]

That is a good idea and they all ready do have a few volunteers that do something like that. That would and does help with promoting certain event but they still need to hire and pay professionals for the business end. There is a lot of work on that end and one man just can't do it himself.

Right. I wasn't addressing the business of operating a race track.

The team would be just for organizing special events.

The team could help organize, promote and run 4 special events per year.
(Spring, early summer, late summer, and a fall event). They help with the
event planning, promoting, and help organize things like swap meets, car
shows, and cruise portions of this street car event. You could even take it
a step further with an after race awards / BBQ.

In return they get free track time.

[CobraII]

My suggestion to you would be to gather your proposal, in writing, and submit it to track owner Michael Tedesco's attention, either in person these last few events, or by mail:

Pittsburgh Raceway Park
Attn: Michael Tedesco
538 Stone Jug Road
New Alexandria PA 15670

Michael most likely will be at the track these last few test and tunes, as his daughter Mia gets more seat time in her dragster. They pit on the right lane side down past the tower, shortly before the playground.